Honda FCX concept fuel cell car in depth, Pt. 4 - Driving at Laguna Seca
(Editor's Note: don't miss Parts One ,Two and Three of this series)
Starting in mid-2008, retail customers in select regions of the United States will be able to go to a Honda dealer and sign a lease for a new FCX. Assuming all goes according to plan, the car will be very much like the one pictured on this page and customers will likely be very pleased by the experience. Since the cost of manufacturing this car will still be well north of what consumers will be able to afford, the cars will initially only be available to lease at a heavily subsidized price. The current FCX goes for $500 a month for a two-year lease, but a price has not yet been set for the new car.
After an introduction to the Laguna Seca race track from Skip Barber racing school instructor Randy Buck, the attendees lined up for a chance to drive the cars. Unfortunately, but understandably (given the value of the cars), the course diverted away the infamous "Corkscrew" onto some of the access roads around the track. In addition to the two new FCX concepts, Honda brought along two 2005 FCX models, and a 2007 Civic GX for comparison. The course included the front straight, an assortment of curves, some typical winding roads and an acceleration and braking area in the paddock. Both the current and new FCX models weigh in at about 3700 lbs, so weight wasn't a factor in the performance.
(Continued after the jump)
I hopped into the 2005 car first to get a baseline impression and get used to the track. Compared to the Focus FCV I drove recently, the FCX felt like it had similar performance, although the car itself felt somewhat more substantial. This impression might be due to the more upright SUV-like stance compared to the Focus. Cornering was fairly flat and handling felt competent, if not exciting. The energy gauge indicates the charge state of the ultra-capacitor and it doesn't take long to deplete it. The Focus gave no indication of how much energy you were using and was generally much more like a stock Focus. Even the 2005 FCX felt more advanced, from the instruments to the navigation system. The startup was also faster at about 6-8 seconds compared to the 15 second startup of the Focus
Skip Barber instructor Randy Buck explains the track layout.
The 2005 FCX.
Next up was the 2008 concept and as you would expect from the appearance, it's a completely different animal. The startup time is even faster at about 4-5 seconds and acceleration and braking felt much stronger than the current FCX. We entered the track from the paddock just before turn 11 and headed onto the front straight. Formal timed acceleration runs were out of the question, but in each car I came out of turn 11 at 20 mph and accelerated up the front straight to crest of the hill before braking for the Andretti hairpin. The 2005 FCX made it to 62 mph, while the new car hit 75 mph at the same point, a pretty big improvement. The continuous flow of torque from the electric motor ensured that acceleration is not a problem.
Cresting the hill on the front straight.
Through the next series of corners, their was almost no noticeable body roll and the steering felt very responsive. Through some tight low-speed turns before going onto the access road the steering effort did feel rather heavy, but since the car has electric steering assist, that's easily tuned out. Visibility to the front and sides was outstanding, although rear visibility was compromised by the tall trunk and sloping back-light. Overall, the FCX concept felt tight and responsive, reacting smoothly to driver inputs without any surprises. The high/low speed steering effort gave it a slightly heavy feel at first, but as speeds picked up it felt like a very competent sports sedan. Since we were only driving on a race track in a warm weather climate it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to comment on the ride and impact absorption. Once Honda drops one of these off in my Michigan garage I'll update that part of the review.
Through the Andretti Hairpin.
The FCX concept is no M5, but given the nature of the power-train, the high level of fit and finish and the stylish interior and exterior, this is a car that could easily slot in as premium model above the Acura RL. As hydrogen availability continues to increase steadily in the coming years, cars like this - along with more mainstream fuel cell models along the lines of the Accord, Civic and Fit - will definitely prove the viability of the idea. Honda already has a fueling station at their facility in Torrance, California that generates hydrogen on-site via solar power. The current FCX became the first fully DOT and EPA certified hydrogen powered car on the market in 2003 and the new car definitely picks up the ball and runs with it. Regardless of what the hydrogen naysayers may think, this is no mere public relations exercise. Honda Motor Company truly believes in hydrogen, and is putting a huge engineering effort into making it a reality sooner rather than later.
Related:
Starting in mid-2008, retail customers in select regions of the United States will be able to go to a Honda dealer and sign a lease for a new FCX. Assuming all goes according to plan, the car will be very much like the one pictured on this page and customers will likely be very pleased by the experience. Since the cost of manufacturing this car will still be well north of what consumers will be able to afford, the cars will initially only be available to lease at a heavily subsidized price. The current FCX goes for $500 a month for a two-year lease, but a price has not yet been set for the new car.
After an introduction to the Laguna Seca race track from Skip Barber racing school instructor Randy Buck, the attendees lined up for a chance to drive the cars. Unfortunately, but understandably (given the value of the cars), the course diverted away the infamous "Corkscrew" onto some of the access roads around the track. In addition to the two new FCX concepts, Honda brought along two 2005 FCX models, and a 2007 Civic GX for comparison. The course included the front straight, an assortment of curves, some typical winding roads and an acceleration and braking area in the paddock. Both the current and new FCX models weigh in at about 3700 lbs, so weight wasn't a factor in the performance.
(Continued after the jump)
I hopped into the 2005 car first to get a baseline impression and get used to the track. Compared to the Focus FCV I drove recently, the FCX felt like it had similar performance, although the car itself felt somewhat more substantial. This impression might be due to the more upright SUV-like stance compared to the Focus. Cornering was fairly flat and handling felt competent, if not exciting. The energy gauge indicates the charge state of the ultra-capacitor and it doesn't take long to deplete it. The Focus gave no indication of how much energy you were using and was generally much more like a stock Focus. Even the 2005 FCX felt more advanced, from the instruments to the navigation system. The startup was also faster at about 6-8 seconds compared to the 15 second startup of the Focus
Skip Barber instructor Randy Buck explains the track layout.
The 2005 FCX.
Next up was the 2008 concept and as you would expect from the appearance, it's a completely different animal. The startup time is even faster at about 4-5 seconds and acceleration and braking felt much stronger than the current FCX. We entered the track from the paddock just before turn 11 and headed onto the front straight. Formal timed acceleration runs were out of the question, but in each car I came out of turn 11 at 20 mph and accelerated up the front straight to crest of the hill before braking for the Andretti hairpin. The 2005 FCX made it to 62 mph, while the new car hit 75 mph at the same point, a pretty big improvement. The continuous flow of torque from the electric motor ensured that acceleration is not a problem.
Cresting the hill on the front straight.
Through the next series of corners, their was almost no noticeable body roll and the steering felt very responsive. Through some tight low-speed turns before going onto the access road the steering effort did feel rather heavy, but since the car has electric steering assist, that's easily tuned out. Visibility to the front and sides was outstanding, although rear visibility was compromised by the tall trunk and sloping back-light. Overall, the FCX concept felt tight and responsive, reacting smoothly to driver inputs without any surprises. The high/low speed steering effort gave it a slightly heavy feel at first, but as speeds picked up it felt like a very competent sports sedan. Since we were only driving on a race track in a warm weather climate it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to comment on the ride and impact absorption. Once Honda drops one of these off in my Michigan garage I'll update that part of the review.
Through the Andretti Hairpin.
The FCX concept is no M5, but given the nature of the power-train, the high level of fit and finish and the stylish interior and exterior, this is a car that could easily slot in as premium model above the Acura RL. As hydrogen availability continues to increase steadily in the coming years, cars like this - along with more mainstream fuel cell models along the lines of the Accord, Civic and Fit - will definitely prove the viability of the idea. Honda already has a fueling station at their facility in Torrance, California that generates hydrogen on-site via solar power. The current FCX became the first fully DOT and EPA certified hydrogen powered car on the market in 2003 and the new car definitely picks up the ball and runs with it. Regardless of what the hydrogen naysayers may think, this is no mere public relations exercise. Honda Motor Company truly believes in hydrogen, and is putting a huge engineering effort into making it a reality sooner rather than later.
Related:
- Honda's website revamped to feature green car content
- EDTA Conference: Q&A with Honda VP Edward Cohen
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Drive Greener 4:54PM (3/19/2008)
Great Blog!! All of you seem to be highly intelligent and know your subjects extremely well. I bet most of you are men. I am a woman, baby boomer, love nature and want my grandchildren to have a cleaner planet to live on. And, to save the planet for their children. My husband and I are @ a crossroads in our lives. Looking ahead at retirement, and a major move to another state (more greener and the people are also). We bought a new car 6 months ago (we had a BMW 3 series on lease). A greener vehicle was our top choice. Unfortunately, the Prius did not fit our financial plan, so w/a lot of research we purchased a Honda Civic (not the hybrid). I think most of you on this blog are really concerned about the future of our planet and not hung up on your own personal opinions. This is so rare in our society today. Keep up the good work. I do agree that you have to keep working on making things better--even when it seems hopeless. The first telephone wasn't so great, or the computer, and how about that huge ugly, first cell phone. I am so confused about the idea that everything has to be perfect from the start. What brought this into our culture? I'm sure that big corporations and their big disgraceful paycheck and benefits for the CEO's has helped. My daughter's lease on her BMW5 (her first) leased through her company, expired a couple of months ago--and she purchased a Pirus--and loves it!! But then, the prestige that comes w/driving one in Calif. is big--so I do agree that that's part of the car's appeal. But, heck I don't care--I'm proud of her and all the consumers who w/puchase any of these cars, including the new Honda fuel cell. If that takes more luxury gas hogs off the road--we all benefit! Last comment, I worked for Saturn in sales--in the days of the EV1. And, because of what GM did w/that car--give up--while we were all trying desperately to lease them, but had none to lease, I will never purchase a GM product again, ever. And, over the yrs. until, I discovered Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc. I had purchased severl GM autos. The last word, Go Honda, Go Toyota, Go Nissan and all the independent folks working only in their home garages for the next big idea. Let's keep trying, without all the fear of failure--most great ideas--can be made better. We've learned that from the Japanese auto makers. They took the American Car and made it so much BETTER. And, the AMC car makers were too proud, stupid, arrogant, lazy etc.etc. But, I'm hoping that all the AMC makers w/get their heads out of the sand and get on board. And, all the CEO's should look to the Japanese car manufactures and restructure their huge salaries, stock options, bonuses, etc. Their raping all the workers and car buying public. Sorry, this is so long--but my firt time. I really enjoy reading all of your comments--the best of the web on this subject--thanks to all!!
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Howard Lee Harkness 11:47AM (11/17/2006)
"Since the cost of manufacturing this car will still be well north of what consumers will be able to afford, the cars will initially only be available to lease at a heavily subsidized price."
Ah, there's the rub. Even if this car can be manufactured at an affordable cost (unlikely), hydrogen will never be less than the equivalent of $8-9/gal gasoline (today's dollars) due to some well-known laws of thermodynamics, physics, and chemistry. The fully-loaded and accounted costs of operating a solar PV-powered electrolysis system would be closer to $15/gal gasoline equivalent, barring some major PV breakthrough.
And even with a major PV breakthrough, it would *still* be cheaper and more efficient to just use the electricity directly, and skip the hydrogen stupidity.
It's interesting that the above quote tacitly admits that the only way to get consumers to buy these insanely stupid cars is with subsidies -- IOW, to rob me via taxes so that some epsilon-minus can drive a hydrogen car.
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Tim 12:28PM (11/17/2006)
The “Hydrogen Economy” is D.O.A. It’s a ruse, a stall and a lie. Energy storage by hydrogen is only 25 % efficient at best. The remaining 75% or more is lost in electrolysis, compression or liquefaction, transportation and fuel cell and that’s if we use solar or wind electricity. We will never have the infrastructure for this BOMB. Why, it’s bad science! Producing electricity and storing in batteries or capacitors is around 85% efficient and the infrastructure has been here for many years. http://www.autoworld.com/news/GMC/Series_Hybrid.htm. http://ev1-club.power.net/newsltr/vol2_1.htm The liquid energy cartels with the help of their lapdog automobile manufacturers only want to keep us addicted to THEIR drugs. http://www.ev1.org/gmoil.htm They’re counting on the fact that the average person can’t economically electrolyze water into hydrogen, compress it, and transfer it to their car at home! If we produce our own bio-fuel or electricity, the gov’t can’t tax it and the liquid energy cartels can’t control it. They both profit from waste, inefficiency and our ignorance. Through our ignorance, we freely give them our power. Perhaps the internet will change things this time. Keep fighting for PERSONAL energy independence!
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KC 12:58PM (11/17/2006)
@ Howard
Do you think that EVs are going to be cheaper? Even plug in EVs planned by Toyota and GM are going to be heavily subsidized or cost a very large chunk of change considering the battery packs alone in plug in EVs are going to be north of $10K. Full EVs can easily expect their battery pack to be the price of a luxury sedan in todays dollars. Why do you think the Tesla roadster is $120 000 for a car that is much smaller and less practical then the 2008 FCX Concept? Plus, batteries have their problems as well. Your not going to get a 5 minute charge from a battery barring - as you say - some breakthrough. Ultra capacitors and super capacitors aren't going to give you the range. They deplete to quickly. There will be a range of new technologies that will be available in the coming years, if you do not like hydrogen, don't buy one. I did not read anywhere in the review that said the government would be subsidizing the 2008 FCX or that is is subsidizing hte current model either so don't worry about your tax dollars. Honda is subsidizing them not the government.
@Sam
Awesome job on the review of the FCX and FCX concept!
You mention this car slotting in above the Acura RL in a couple parts of this series. Is that perhaps a hint of where Honda is targeting the lease price of the new 2008 FCX?
Did Honda give any indication of the kinds of volume they hope to produce of the new model? I know they plan to launch it in the US and in their home market of Japan, but in limited fashion. I am just curious how limited. Are we talking 100 units, a 1000 units, or is Honda aiming really big with this vehicle?
Since you mention that Honda is genuinely committed to making hydrogen powered cars a reality and this is more then a public relations gimmick, did Honda give any give any more information about what they believe the hydrogen infrastructure will look like or how they plan to help get it established? You mention they have a refueling station in Torrance, California that is Solar powered. Does Honda believe this facility is a viable model for hydrogen refueling stations or is it more of a public relations exercise? You mention it is solar powered but what method does it use to extract hydrogen? Did Honda reveal anything new about their Home Fueling System that uses natural Gas?
What are Honda's projections about the development of the Hydrogen economy? Do they think that it will take 45 years to become reasonably developed like the DOE in their projections?
Honda has definitely proven what the fuel cell cars can do, but what are their answers to the naysayers - like Howard above - as to the viability of hydrogen as a fuel source?
Once again, fantastic job on the FCX series though. Are they really going to drop one off at you house like the focus FCV for you to drive around Michigan for a day? If so you are one lucky man!
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kballs 1:48PM (11/17/2006)
KC, do you think a fuel cell plus an ultracapacitor (these are needed to decouple the fuel cell output from the immediate power needs of the vehicle) will be cheaper than a big Li-Ion battery pack? And in practice you have to replace the fuel cell plates (using rare and expensive platinum) every 10,000-20,000 miles. This means battery packs are much cheaper over the life of the vehicle, and 3 times more energy efficient.
They are developing batteries that can charge in under 10 minutes (at a special charging station, which don't exist in many places, and neither do hydrogen stations). These are a lot closer to going into retail vehicles than fuel cells.
The one thing that most people don't see however is in cars like the FCX, and hydrogen vehicles being developed by GM, that the fuel cell could easily be switched out for a small and efficient gas/diesel generator to charge the batteries/capacitors. These would be series hybrids... actually the hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are series hybrids: hydrogen/electric hybrids instead of gasoline/electric hybrids. This makes the development of these vehicles have value even without a hydrogen infrastructure or economically viable fuel cells.
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Sam Abuelsamid 2:06PM (11/17/2006)
4. kballs you are incorrect on both the ultra capacitor and fuel cell life span questions. Li-ion battery are smaller, lighter, cheaper and have more capacity than current capacitors. That's why Honda is dropping the capacitor they have in the current generation fcx and switching to a battery in the new car. Also even the current fuel cells like the Ballard mark 902 (used in the Focus FCV) and the current Honda stacks are good for 100,000 miles. New cells are good for even more. Also the Ford and Honda fuel cell vehicles are both parallel hybrids not series. The power goes directly from the fuel cell to the motor and the battery is used for a power boost and startup. I'm not sure about the GM vehicles.
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Howard Lee Harkness 3:50PM (11/17/2006)
"Do you think that EVs are going to be cheaper?"
Absolutely. The major cost factor of an EV is currently the battery. Standard carbon-substrate LiON batteries will withstand about 500-600 cycles before they must be replaced (and they have some other well-publicized problems). That's about 2 years, or about $5000/year, if you depleted the battery every workday. Now that a rapid-cycle titanium-substrate-LiON battery is available that can withstand more than 9000 deep-discharge cycles, the amortization cost (lease accounting basis) can be made much lower. 9000+ cycles (30+ years of weekday full-cycling) means that the battery pack will outlast the car. Even at a cost of $20K, the lease basis could be less than $1K per year for normal usage.
"Why do you think the Tesla roadster is $120 000 for a car that is much smaller and less practical then the 2008 FCX Concept?"
Same reason dinner with your favorite politician costs $1000 a plate. It's primarily a fund-raising project, intended for the early-adopters. Tesla has publicly committed to producing a $20K (today's dollars, I'm sure) sedan within a decade. But if all they ever make is ultra-expensive roadsters, that's fine with me as long as my tax dollars don't go there.
"Plus, batteries have their problems as well. Your not going to get a 5 minute charge from a battery barring - as you say - some breakthrough."
Not quite 5 minutes, but would you settle for 10? Or 80% charge in 1 minute? That's already been done. However, a little advance planning to allow for a 15-20 minute charge time might be a bit easier to handle from the supply side (smaller, more manageable cables, anyway), and I could certainly live with that. After all on a long trip, after you visit the bathroom, and peruse the snacks in the convenience store/charging station or wait for your burger to get to the counter, that's gonna be nearly 20 minutes anyway. For shorter commuting trips, you can just top it off every night at home. (Assuming a straight EV, and not a P/HEV)
The one disadvantage of the Altair NanoSafe is the slightly lower energy/weight ratio, but there are other competitors working on similar technologies that might actually achieve a better e/w than carbon-substrate-LiON, with acceptable safety, temperature, and charge characteristics.
"Ultra capacitors and super capacitors aren't going to give you the range."
That is correct, and likely to remain so for a while. The new Titanium-LiON technology may obsolete supercaps in this application. However, supercaps will remain useful in other applications, and I would definitely like to see more research in that area.
"if you do not like hydrogen, don't buy one."
I certainly don't plan to. What I'm wanting is a biodiesel-PHEV.
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Tim 4:42PM (11/17/2006)
Right-On Howard! You da man! Whoop! Whoop! PHEV-60 or 120 Hybrid multi-fuel veggie or bio-diesel, series electric vehicles with quick-charge (maybe NanoSafe) L-Ion batteries for around $30K MSRP would change the world and set us free!!! Will the energy cartels let us extract their hands from our pockets willingly? Man, I hope and pray so. http://internalcombustionbook.com
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Tim 4:42PM (11/17/2006)
They could use the same Auxiliary Power Units, Motors, Controllers, Batteries and more throughout all their lines. Heck, they could use the "skateboard" tech they were talking about years ago and just re-tune the motor controller and change the sheet metal for each vehicle type. Talk about economies of scale! Who needs Hydrogen? These things should be less expensive to make than what they are making now. Far fewer parts to inventory & distribute, and a mechanic that can work on one can work on them all.
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KC 12:30AM (11/18/2006)
what about using these in either a hydrogen FCV or pure EV?
http://zmp.com/
"These innovative new silver-zinc batteries provide up to 2X the runtime of lithium-ion battery packs of the same size"--Zinc Matrix Power, Inc.
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CM 1:56AM (11/18/2006)
Hmm, going to be heavily subsidized "lease only" in 2008? Why am I reminded of GMs EV1? Will these beauties end up in the crusher because Honda concludes that "no one wants them, hydrogen is too expensive, they cost too much, range is too short, not enough refill stations, etc."?
I suspect these auto companies are playing a game of economic chicken, trying to goad one another to spend themselves into bankruptcy on an exotic impractical new technology.
As for silver zinc batteries - hello, silver? Way to expensive for automotive use, but may be useful for small devices like laptops and cell phones.
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QT 7:48AM (11/19/2006)
I love the 08' FCX. I am 100% positive I'll be grabbing one for 2 years. Fuel Cells has made amazing progress past few years. I believe we're on a major Paradigme shift with them. I'd like to know who's the manufacturer for the FCX fuel cells.
To Everyone involved in the fuel cell industry, I thank you all and I hope you keep up the excellent work!!
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Sam Abuelsamid 8:06AM (11/19/2006)
Unlike every other carmaker, Honda designs and builds their own fuel cells, and seem to have made a major step forward with this new vertical flow fuel cell. If you haven't read it yet, go back and check part one of the series for some more details on the cell. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11/15/honda-fcx-concept-fuel-cell-car-pt-1-the-new-fuel-cell-stack/
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Emosson 4:53PM (11/19/2006)
A hydrogen economy wouldn't make sense because storing electrical energy from solar panels etc. as hydrogen is extremely inefficient (25 %), as compared to storage in batteries (85%):
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/converted.swf
http://www.efcf.com/reports/
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buyalternativeenergy 10:27AM (11/21/2006)
I'll take two please: http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/
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LaughingTooHard 10:49PM (11/25/2006)
So it is time machine effect again. Honda is committed to dong nothing but making money, remember that folks. First and foremost, in NY where E85 is being pushed hard there are NO PUBLIC stations for E85. Do you think that hydrogen stations will show up quicker? Second and most importantly, it IS a PR bait and switch. Do you think Honda wants people to buy these? Over a Ridgeline or a Pilot? ROFL! Please, try again. Lastly and most importantly, all of you Japanese Fan Boyz should look to the almighty false God Toyota, where is there hydrogen car plans? No where, exactly. They care about nothing more than market share and profits. Honda likes being cutting edge but that hasn't helped them beat out anyone in profits or sales yet. They have made a great big import tuner market trojan horse from the Civic, but they don't get any of that money.
If they are serious about this, I see a fiasco on the proportion of the PS3 is for Sony. Best of luck, and maybe Toyota will just buy Honda, that is if all you idiots keep buying their automotive appliances. GM is finally woken up and seen that E85, plug in hybrids and EV's are the ways to go. Their hydrogen CUV is PR stunt just like this one. Both will end up in the car shredder in a few years...and no crying this time please.
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LHawes 12:17PM (11/26/2006)
I remember when I was developing the Stanley Steamer with Mr. Stanley. Howard said the idea was insanely stupid but gosh we decided to pursue the idea anyway.
Then I helped Mr Daimler figure out one of the first modern internal combustion engines and Howard's shrill scream could be heard in the background. "Insane, stupid, it won't work because I can't see how!" But heck we decided to try even though there weren't even gas stations.
Now Howard can still be heard loud (and I do mean loud) and clear with the same shrill warning, "Do not attempt to persue your vision. Do not try anything I do not agree with, and for god's sake do not persue a future that does not match my absolute picture of the future."
Perhaps the future has a couple of different options with hydrogen simply being one of them, Bio fuels another, and EV another, and god forbid, maybe something we haven't even thought of yet?
I say try them all. Throw all the technologies up against the wall and see which one sticks! I persoanlly hope they all do.
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rvr 5:16PM (11/26/2006)
while i agree that many approaches need to be tried before we can figure out what the successful technology will be--the one that has the right combination of practicality and efficiency--i still don't see that anyeon has really addressed howard's point. what is the answer to the argument that h2 is only 25% efficient, since you're using a large amount of energy to produce, store, and maybe transport the hydrogen? sure, maybe there are things that haven't been invented yet, but won't creating hydrogen, and then converting it to electricity, always be less efficient than just making electricity? i just haven't heard the logical argument from the other side yet, and i'm waiting with an open mind.
i would guess there is one, since a lot of smart people are putting a lot of money into this, unless it is primarily a pr stunt. anyone?
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Alton Ray 11:03AM (12/29/2006)
I wish all of these negative minded people would just put as much energy toward solving these problems as they do gri-ping!, about the people who are trying to get us, & the rest of the world out the mess we're in. If we could just stop buying oil from these radical ungrateful, rich,(because of our waste), Mideast countries.Then maybe they could'nt afford to even come over to the US, to terrorize us in the first place! Lets All try to find a way to stop having to make these "War-Jihadist" Ignoramouses,Rich, and make the world a greener, safer place for our generations to come!
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Jim 8:42AM (12/28/2006)
The answer to the question of why hydrogen for automobiles lies in mobility. Liquid fuels are used because their high energy density and transportability. A similar argument is being promoted for the use of H2 gas. There is a reason we have converted from solid to liquid fuels (i.e., wood/coal to oil) over the past 100-150 years, and are now converting to gases as the fuels of choice. Most new power plants run on natural gas not coal or oil because natural gas systems are cheaper to build and are cleaner. Yes there is an energy density issue with H2, but don't forget a lot of energy is spent creating gasoline and diesel fuel. So if you want mobility you need either liquid or gas based fuels and H2 is one of the best if harnessed properly. As for E85 and biofuels, they have their challenges also.
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