Next-Gen Prius to get lithium ion battery and 113 mpg
AutoExpress magazine in the UK has a report in this week's issue about the next generation Toyota Prius. They are reporting that the new Prius will be switching from nickel metal hydride batteries to lithium ion batteries that have greater capacity in an even smaller size. With the smaller package, interior room of the new car should be improved, especially in the back seat. The improved power output of the lithium batteries will allow the car to run on electrons-only more often in urban traffic.
According to the magazine, Toyota engineers are targeting a mileage rating of 113 mpg, with improved 0-60 mph acceleration of less than 10 seconds. The internal combustion part of the drive train is reported to be a new turbocharged 1.8L lean burn four cylinder. The car may even get factory plug-in capability when it goes on sale in 2009 and now that GM has announced their intention to offer a plug-in hybrid Saturn Vue, this one may be a certainty. The styling is also reported to be revamped, with a spy photo in the print version of the magazine.
[Source: AutoExpress]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Xias 10:25AM (3/11/2008)
Just goes to show you that while the Prius isn't a perfect solution, it's continued to improve on mileage and overall environmental impact. I mean just look at the previous battery specs at http://www.toyotapriusbattery.com. I think we'll continue to see even more MPG improvements with later Prius models. Toyota is really pushing the envelope!
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Darryl Fett 8:54AM (3/29/2008)
Someone had mentioned awhile back the possible companies that could supply safer and more efficient li-ion phosphate batteries for the prius, and said that it could only be A123 systems. Let's not forget Valence Technologies's Saphion Technology which is already being used in OEMtek's aftermarket prius PHEV option. So it will be interesting to see how toyota approaches the li-ion solution for there next gen prius. Being that the Li-ion phosphate technology is patented (by at least two companies, which are in court over patent rights), it's hard to believe toyota could go out on their own for li-ion phosphate.
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Chris Kelly 10:55AM (12/11/2006)
As the article is in the UK, they're likely using UK MPG measurements. The conversion to US MPG measurements is ~ 83.3 percent of that. The new Prius would get approximately 94 MPG US.
Looking forward to the upgrades, and I'll definitely be in line for one come 2009!
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A5-14 11:07AM (12/11/2006)
Horsepower wars among manufacturers was a golden age for car enthusiests. Can the MPG wars provide us with a new golden age?
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Mike Z. 12:19PM (12/11/2006)
Nice MPG rating. The technology would put A hybrid Camry in the high 60s and high 40s-low 50s for the Highlander.
Nice to see the competitive pressure and market competition at work.
I'm worried about the Li-Ion batts though, if they did not find a way to deal with the natural decay in Li-Ion capacity over time, the car could lose MPG over its life and would have a significant drop in resale value for cars older then 4 years or so.
Other than that, Great news. (I still think the Prius is ugly as all hell though)
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Howard Lee Harkness 12:36PM (12/11/2006)
Mike Z: There are now two competing versions of LiON without the decay or thermal runaway problems. I hope that one of them finds its way into this vehicle.
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Mike Z. 12:47PM (12/11/2006)
In that case it would have to be A123 systems--as Altairnano I think it is unlikely would be able to ramp up production to meet Toyota's likely production schedule.
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Howard Lee Harkness 1:00PM (12/11/2006)
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think GM is competing with Chrysler (the PT Cruiser) to produce the fugliest car.
If this technology was available in a small pickup truck, I'd buy it now. Since it isn't, I'll be buying a Toyota Tacoma 4x2 next week. Maybe in 6 or 7 years, when I get ready to trade that one in...
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oldnews 1:16PM (12/11/2006)
Not exactly new news -- see here . The actual number is 40 km/l, or about 113 Imperial or 94.5 US mpg. This is on the Japanese 10-15 fuel economy cycle, which makes the EPA schedule look like a testosterone-infused, pedal-to-the-metal, tire-burning test cycle. For reference, the current Prius gets 35.5 km/l, or 84 mpg, on this fuel schedule, so the next generation represents a significant ~12.5% increase over the current generation. At least on the Japanese 10-15. That turbo, for scavenging waste heat, is long overdue. Now all they need are a plugin option and an engine without the big throttling losses. The latter would also take nicely to renewable fuel.
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Mike Z. 1:35PM (12/11/2006)
Thanks for making us all depressed!
At least GM must be happy they are not *That* far behind the curve.
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Charles S 7:19PM (12/11/2006)
"Thanks for making us all depressed!"
One shouldn't think that way. Yes, it's great to hear great mileage for a future vehicle, but such high expectations can easily backfire. Current hybrids are already very good compare to most, any improvement is a good thing. I just hope that they can actually deliver the product on time.
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Eminem Sucks 12:17AM (12/12/2006)
BULL $#!T!!
The current Toyota is touted as making 60 mpg. The real-world average is in the mid-forties. This next Prius won't be hitting 90+ mpg. Realistically, the new average will probably in the mid-sixties.
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oldnews 11:10PM (12/11/2006)
Hmm, I see you can't inline links. The reference was supposed to point here (note the date): http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109981
Here's a comparison of the EPA, European, and Japanese test cycles. The Japanese is the shortest, has the lowest speeds, and gentlest acceleration. I don't know whether battery state is monitored, which may or may not be important for something as short and slow as the 10-15.
http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb25/Spreadsheets/Table4_26.xls
Also, a 12% increase is not to be sneezed at. At least they didn't make it bigger and heavier (unlike the Corolla or Camry over the years -- or the Civic and Accord)
And if you really want depressing, try looking in the "Might Have Been" files -- GM, with their EV experience, could have been ahead of the curve (check the dates):
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/gmprecept.html
http://www.sae.org/automag/globalview_05-00/02.htm
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/fordprodigy.html
Even if the numbers were "EPA numbers" they're still a huge advance.
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Kendrew Leung 2:29AM (12/12/2006)
@11
its not being measured by EPA numbers, and still 60-70 mpg is still more than you can get in most petrol cars
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Saab analyst 6:50AM (12/12/2006)
Having factory plug-in would have more major consequences than fuel economy of next prius.
Every big maker would have to follow causing chain reaction eventually causing end of combustion engines in developed countries. And that would cause futher super big changes in world politics and economical power balances.
Different tech piaces of producing and using electricity in everyday cars does basicly exist. What is missing is some big player to start change.
Wanna stock hint? Invest solar/wind tech companies, next 20 years could be wild.
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Mikeeeee 8:50AM (12/12/2006)
What is the big deal!!!!!!!!! I drive a 2002 GMC Sanoma 4cyl. 5 speed. I use e-85. Here is the last figures on my mpg. Tank # 1 15.6 gal of e-85 ='s 2.34 gal of gas / 265 miles ='s 113.2 mpg. Tank# 2 14.3 gal of e-85 ='s 2.15 gal of gas / 263 miles ='s 122.3 mpg
Maybe more people should go out of their way to BUY and USE e-85. As they say "every little bit helps" By the way, GM has 2.3 million e-85 vehicles on the road right now!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mike Joyce 11:13AM (12/12/2006)
Mikeeeee,
I hate to break it to you, but your math is flawed:
Tank #1 15.6 Gallons over 265 miles is actually ~16.9 MPG
Tank #2 14.3 Gallons over 263 miles is actually ~18.3 MPG
If you were actually getting the MPG you are claiming.. you would be driving significantly more miles per fill-up.
Tank #1 at 15.6 Gallons would last 1765 miles at 113.2 MPG
Tank #2 at 14.3 Gallons would last 1749 miles at 122.3 MPG
Here is a decent guide to help you calculate MPG:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=calcMPG
E-85 Vehicles aren't magical, and won't give you greater gas mileage. Their lower effective octane causes engines to back off timing, and richen the fuel mixture to avoid pre-detonation. As a result there is less thermal efficiency coming from the engine, and you use more fuel than a higher octane fuel.
That isn't to say that the social responsibility aspects of using a renewable resource like corn to produce Ethanol as a significant additive to fossil fuels is not a valiant one.
Cheers!
Mike
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MikeW 11:57AM (12/12/2006)
Just wait until the new FEG test is done of the '08 prius. 60/51 now, to 50/40 is more like it.
So if the next gen prius can bring those numbers up that to 60/51, that would be phenomenal.
The ignition timing is not retarded when running on E70/E85. The effective AKI is not less than regular gasoline, and in reality is greater~95 AKI.
If anything, the timing would be advanced, but that is not utilized unless the engine computer is programmed to run the engine with the most advanced timing under all conditions-on the knock limit, i.e. premium fuel.
So far the only company that does that is MercedesBenz
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LaughingTooHard 5:32PM (12/12/2006)
Anyone else wondering why the EPA has changed their testing methodology? For balant EPA test cycle abuse just like this. The Prius, unless driven at electric only mode speeds (read: 'grandma with walker' speed) can't achive the original MPG numbers even with a tailwind; downhill. So now we are supposed to think it will get double? Why do you zelots bother collecting a paycheck? Just send the money to Toyota, N.A. and they will send you whatever car they wish, and the change.
Funny how the government had to get into things to fix the same rules the Japanese automakers have been exploiting for years. Don't believe me? Check any car magazine or web review of a Japanese car - they almost never mention REAL WORLD or TEST DRIVE MPG! They always quote EPA numbers. Then check the review for a Durango, Tahoe, or F-150 - BANG! Real world numbers right below the EPA figures. Why? Because the Japanese automakers have figured out how to beat the EPA test cycle and get numbers you never will in the real world. And they instruct the reviewers, "No real world mileage numbers, or we will not provide you with a test vehicle next time." Testing cars for free is a magazine's money. No cars, no draw. No money. At your expense, these magazines do as they are told. Consumer Reports (gag!) bought a Prius with their own money and lo'n behold, it sucked. Think about that one...
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Mike i-lik-It 10:17PM (12/12/2006)
LaughingTooHard,
You must be hitting to the gas to Hard. Your Conspiracy theory about the Japanese Car companys made me Laugh. The New EPA rules were pushed by the Domestic Car companys, in a lame attemp reigh in Hybrid sales. EPA has stated the it's test were outdated and inaccurate especially with how they calculated milage. I've never seen any Auto Mag/website that has in accurately stated MPG on Domestic or Foreign Cars. I'm no fan of the commercial sites and Mags especially after seeing all the negative press about Hybrids. I sure your point about CR reports on Hybrid in the Difference in City miles, but even if that's the case you still get better mileage then regular gs engine in the city. I've heard all the yak-yak about how some guy get better milage in his civic then a hybrid. If this was so true why are they not make these magical lcivic and escorts now.
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