Hummer vs Prius Redux: This time to Hummer? I don't think so!
Here we go again, another writer putting out a story about the Hummer being greener than a Prius. Even Hummer manufacturer General Motors isn't foolish enough to try and make this absurd claim. It's not clear what the author's motivation is, but he might want to check some facts next time put clicking the publish button. The main evidence he references are the now debunked CNW research article that came out in 2006, that contained plenty of factual errors in their analysis of the manufacturing costs of the nickel metal hydride batteries and information about nickel producer Inco.
You can read Sebastian's follow up on the CNW study to get the skinny on that. The information on Inco is just plain outdated and wrong. Yes, Inco did a lot of probably irreparable damage to the area around Sudbury, Ontario over the many decades, and I will not defend them. The 1,247 foot tall Inco superstack definitely spread acid rain far and wide over eastern Canada for nearly two decades. However a major pollution control program was put in place in the late 1980s and since 1994, the stack has emitted almost nothing but water vapor. Most of the Ontario lakes that were damaged by acid rain in the 1970s and 1980s have since recovered and are now doing well.
Finally, the author references the changes to the EPA fuel economy ratings this year, and the fact that Prius ratings fall about 25 percent from 2007 to 2008. What he neglects to mention is that every vehicle for sale in the United States suffers a significant drop in the sticker fuel efficiency, including his precious Hummer. Admittedly, hybrids are not a panacea for our problems and they create problems of their own. But this article is just silly. You can find the article at the Read link, or just keep reading here.
[Source: Central Connecticut State University Recorder]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jerry3456 7:26PM (1/30/2008)
I think it is all a joke and a lie! I have an 1981 Fiat Spider with a five speed tranny, and yes I get on it a little and I average 34mpg and I have an 97 Pontiac Montana and we get about 22 combined mpg.. Those are real numbers from a family of 6.. So I guess I'm saying either Fiat was amazing or these other companies are holding back real mileage that we should be getting in almost all cars!!! And as far as the van, we just took a 1200 mile trip and we got 28 mpg on the highway... So go ahead and post what ever numbers you want I will never believe them intill I see it for myself... Jerry
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Jimmy Le 9:17PM (3/18/2008)
Most Hummer drivers are not contractors. Hummers are NOT SAFER THAN Prii if they are both equipped with curtain airbags and all Prii are equipped with curtain airbags for the 2008 model. Note that the Prius is rated Good for both Frontal and side impact while the Hummer is rated Acceptable. Big doesn't equal SAFETY if the car is poorly Engineered. Perception is option incorrect, what correct is actual test data:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=629
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=566
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Chris M 3:23AM (3/16/2008)
Actually, there is a Prius that has gone over 300,000 miles, unfortunately it had a nasty accident a few thousand miles later. Nobody hurt, but the car was totaled.
There are lots of myths springing up about hybrids. Hybrids do better than non-hybrids in city AND highway driving, I can vouch for that with personal experience.
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JP 7:13AM (3/09/2007)
Actually the author stated "The new tests which affect all 2008 models" so I think he was being fair on this point.
I sense a bit of bias from you against Hummer, which isn't necesarily a bad thing. Would you have written this in a similarly slanted way if the author compared the prius to say, a camry or civic and came to the same conclusion?
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Cougar 8:46PM (3/11/2007)
Hi, I am the guy who wrote the article.
I read your response, and while I understand where you stand, it is ultimately my opinion that the Prius is in no way a solution to the very serious energy problem we are facing. And living on a college campus, I find that many professors hold over your head the idea that if you dont drive a hybrid you are simply a bad person.
I think the money spent on hybrids would be better spent developing bio-d, eletric, or hydrogen powerplants, relieving us of the oil burden.
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Megansprius 9:43AM (3/27/2007)
Although I doubt the comment above from Cougar is from the author, on the slim chance it is I'll ask him to respond to the following points.
1. Take the "spitting distance" mileage, for example. The new EPA combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46 mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is "spitting distance."
2. The "Dust-to-dust" study is from a marketing firm, not a science journal. It arrives at an artificially high cost for the Prius by assigning it an arbitrary lifespan of 100k miles, and a Hummer 300k miles. There's Prius being used as cabs that have 200k on them now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/
And, insofar as a car lasting, what car do you expect to repair less? A Toyota Prius or a GM Hummer? You can check Consumer Reports for the answer to that one. A good analysis of the flaws in dust-to-dust is available at:
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48
3. The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies — early 1970’s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury’s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which Cougar's article is is a thin re-write of (visible here http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770 ), even used a freely available stock photo from 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754 ). There were, of course, no Prius in existence or being manufactured in 1994.
Sudbury is no longer as polluted, as INCO and the city have planted over 8 million trees there since 1979. The best history online of the Sudbury devastation/reforestation comes from GM Canada (the trees were all cut down in 1871 to help rebuild Chicago after the fire), and it provides telling photos of some of the reclamation from 1979 to present.
http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/english/about/MissionGreen/Daily/Sep22.html
The acid rain problem David Martin of Greenpeace is talking about in is the situation pre 1972. INCO on regreening and SO2 emissions
http://www.inco.com/development/community/profiles/sudbury/default.aspx
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JOHN 10:11PM (4/02/2007)
NO, I'M THE AOTHER, MAN! AND MY DADDY BOUGHT ME AND ME SISTER A HUMMER AND MY DADDY WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO HERT THIS HERE THING CALLED EARTH. AND ISN'T SUDBURY JUST WEAR THAT BIG 5 CENT NICKAL IS SOMEWHERE UP OVER THARE?
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Stone Wheels 4:48PM (4/12/2007)
Megansprius spins and spins. Chevy Aveo 26 MPG???
You are stating the Aveo's city rating versus a Prius highway rating. That is rather Karl Rove of you. Hybrids are more efficient in city driving while non-hybrids perform better on the highway. Which brings up another point - hybrids that use carpool negate the only benefit these vehicles provide - you are using gas at highway speeds!
The new VW TDI engines will provide sedans with approx. 45 MPG! The engine will last a million miles. Sell your Prius soon as a new and cleaner technology is on the horizon - ultra clean diesel engines!
Hummer is the wrong target - BMW, Audi, Lexus - sport sedans that get less than 20 MPG. Even a Hummer H3 15/20 MPG @ a whopping 4,700 lbs! Hummer is one of the lowest volume makes in the US. BMW is one of the highest - producing hundreds of thousands more gas guzzling sedans.
Contractors buy Hummers, MBA's by BMW's... is this not really about economic class? Who can afford a Prius - a sedan that offers no utility to the contractor, laborer, etc.?
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John Kurmann 11:07PM (4/17/2007)
Actually, Stone Wheels, using the EPA's revised fuel economy calculation methodology (http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp), which goes into effect later this year, the 2007 Aveo with an automatic transmission rates 26 MPG combined; with a manual, it rates 27 MPG. The 2007 Prius rates 46 MPG combined. And the Prius is a considerably larger car. Imagine the fuel economy a Toyota the size of the Aveo would attain if equipped with Hybrid Synergy Drive.
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shonuf 11:55AM (5/01/2007)
Regardless of energy consumption, the "more realistic" EPA numbers really equate to increasing driving ignorance.
It doesn't matter if you drive a Hummer or Prius, the revised EPA numbers don't reflect anything other than what you see every day on the road: people buying "fuel efficient" vehicles, proceeding to drive them in a non-fuel efficient manner. Minimum of 10MPH in excess of posted speed limits, accelerating to stop lights, AC on all the time, automatic transmissions, etc. Either people don't understand how much they waste, or they conveniently ignore facts to suit their desire to get there faster.
Drivers of all vehicle types are guilty of this, but look at the original EPA numbers of any random sampling of vehicles on the EPA list. Those are what is *possible* if we modify how we drive. Those numbers were not artificial, just not realistic based on driving *habits*, not vehicle changes. I wouldn't be surprised if the AVERAGE between old and new numbers is 10% in economy! It is for the H3. That's a huge improvement, you will never see that much difference back to back years the same make/model/powertrain combo, but people apparently aren't willing to modify their behavior. Some don't care, and others apparently buy more fuel efficient vehicles, then waste 10% more energy than necessary while still managing to feel good about what they've done for the environment.
At least the gas guzzling Hummer owner isn't being a hypocrite: they don't care, and they flaunt it. Hybrid/economy car drivers (I drive a 37MPG economy car, which nets far better efficiency than the EPA numbers due to modified driving behavior) seem to hide behind their supposed fuel efficiency while refusing to change their driving behavior.
This is no different than any other environmental debate...personal willingness to change is the answer moreso than debating what kind of vehicle you drive.
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Dots 11:49AM (1/14/2008)
I have drive my little Toyota Corolla to the ground. I have combine milage of 32 miles to the gallon. It is 14 years old, and it is time to get a new car. I happen to choose the New Hummer3. I know it is a gas guzzling car, but I should not be judge by what car I drive. I feel safer in a Hummer than the Toyota, especially when I am around bad drivers. I do not drive enough to feel the pinch of the gas price. I ride my bike to the train station, I use public transportation, buses, subway and train. I never fly first or business class, I only go vacation once a year. I lived in a small house, I am almost vegetarian. So, with all these green behaviour, I should not get a break from getting a Hummer that I probably won't put more than 6000 miles in for a year? I need the bigger car because I only use it when I need to haul something. And that is wrong?
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