Diesel plus hybrid equals 70+mpg
The latest diesel-powered cars offered in Europe come close to - and in a lot of cases beat - hybrid-electric cars like Toyota's Prius in the mileage stakes, so imagine what would happen if you combined the best of both technologies. France's Peugeot hopes to do just that and by becoming the first carmaker to launch a diesel-electric hybrid by the end of the decade.
The recently launched midsize Peugeot 308 hatch will be the first vehicle fitted with the new powertrain, but it's likely other models will soon follow suit if it proves to be successful.
The Peugeot diesel hybrid should average better than 70mpg (58.3mpg US), which would mean its emissions levels would be lower than most other cars except for pure electric vehicles. By comparison, the Prius rates 65.7mpg (54.7mpg US). However, most motoring mags have found its real-world fuel economy ratings to be much lower.
The only factor holding back the release of the hybrid 308 is the high cost of the batteries and electric motor, but engineers are working hard to make the technology more affordable.
[Source: TimesOnline.co.uk]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
TFTMom 10:58PM (9/28/2009)
If anyone makes a decent diesel hybrid it will probably be VW. They have been the leader in the diesel market for decades. Remember the VW diesel pickup. It got 70mph back in the 80's. Of course it was severely underpowered, but hey.
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TheRookie 6:54PM (6/12/2007)
Given awful reliability record of French car manufacturers (AFAIR, Citroen was the worst manufacturer in the UK and Peugeot managed to be one step above) I am horrified to see Peugeot hybrid... Hey, Ford, how about Focus hybrid?
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Karkus 7:27PM (6/12/2007)
It's great to see diesel hybrids coming out !
I'm all for that. Cheers to Peugeot. It shows that "diesel" and "hybrid" can be friends.
But once again, certain people are trying to make apples to oranges comparisons with a Prius. The Prius is Midsize, where the 308 is a compact car. (why is it that people keep finding small (and sometimes underpowered) cars that do a little better than Prius and claim that it's some revolutionary thing?)
But regardless, saying emissions will be lower is still pretty dubious. For CO2 emissions, diesels have to have a >15% higher MPG number before they have a lower CO2 emission than a gas car (due to the higher density of diesel). This is clearly NOT the case, so it will NOT have a lower CO2 emissions than the Prius.
(for the lowest CO2 emissions cars sold in the UK today, see http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/how-to-use-the-data-tables.asp#petrol
Also, diesels are having a very tough time meeting even minimum US smog emissions standards. A hybrid drivetrain will certainly help, but even if it easily qualifies for Tier2Bin5 (~LEVII), it's long way from that to the AT-PZEV rating of the Prius.
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ThwartedEfforts 7:05AM (6/13/2007)
I have no idea where Karkus is getting his information, but the outgoing 307 is the same physical size as a Prius. It is also heavier and offers more interior and trunk space. The 308 gets larger still.
In addition, Peugeot have always maintained that the 308's hybrid drivetrain will attain CO2 emissions of 90g per km so as to beat the Prius. Weird how Prius owners believe their car is some sort of unbeatable benchmark.
And come on, we all know how emissions work over there. You just need to look at the way filthy domestic pickups hog the top slots on U.S. best-seller lists to see that the regulations are protecting businesses more than they are protecting the environment.
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Nils 7:23AM (6/13/2007)
It's the endless ppm versus g/km discussion... If only people were better at maths...
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Rick 8:40AM (6/13/2007)
Rookie- Ford isn't exactly what I call a staple for reliability. Hey Hyundai, how about a hybrid anything?
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Karkus 9:52AM (6/13/2007)
The 307 hatch is 1090 kg = 2403 lbs.
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/peugeot-307-1.6-16v-hatch-1003070.html That's about 500 lbs less than the Prius.
(Maybe the 308 hatch hybrid is a little heavier, but I can't see how they would add 500 lbs. And in case you're wondering, the Prius batteries are only ~100 lbs.)
The CO emissions of a 70 mpg (UK) combined diesel would be about 105-106 g/km. (if you extrapolate numbers from http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/)
If they are to attain 90 g/km, then they have to do a lot better than 70 mpg (i.e. 58 mpg US).
Still I agree that a hybrid diesel should be able to achieve 90 g/km in a midsize car. All I'm saying that the above 70 mpg UK number wouldn't do that.
I think it would be GREAT if a hybrid diesel (or whatever) was released that beat the Prius in every category. After all, the newe Prius has benn out for 3.5 years now, and it's about time for something better.
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Benson Leung 10:31AM (6/13/2007)
Great, so far... but I still have questions about how much of a hybrid this vehicle is...
Is it a full hybrid, meaning able propel itself in electric only, or a combination of diesel + electric, or is it merely an assist?
Does it have engine-stop capability when i come to a stop? What's the max electric only range on this thing?
And what about NOx forming emissions? Full hybrids have a significant advantage over conventional vehicles in seriously reducing NOx and other smog forming emissions. Assist hybrids don't necessarily have the same advantage.
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TheRookie 10:34AM (6/13/2007)
Rick,
French cars are consistently regarded as worst ones on sale in the UK. For example, Peugeot 307 (predecessor of 308) takes an awful 150 place out of 152 in recent TopGear survey. Don't think that 308 is going to be any better. Compare this with Ford Focus 88/152 or Prius 13/152. As a brand, all three French manufacturers (Citroen, Renault and Peugeot) taking 33rd, 34th and 35th places (out of 35), while Ford doing slightly better (24th place) and Toyota is 7th overall.
But if Hyundai will sell full hybrid that indeed could be interesting.
Full survey results are here:
http://www.topgear.com/content/carsurvey/2006/
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66coronet 1:09PM (6/13/2007)
From the front tire on back it sure looks like Suzuki SX4 and Fiat Sedici twins.
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Don 4:17PM (6/13/2007)
Great looking car. Much more sensible than a Prius.
I love how the Prius gets 54.7 mpg US cycle. Riiiiight.
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Val 4:57PM (6/13/2007)
this car is never ever going to the US, so i don't see the point of most of those arguments. Its true that the 307 was ranked very low in Top Gear surveys, but it is also true that they sold around 3 million cars from that generation (i think) and as far as french cars go, Renault was (i am not sure if it still is) importer No.1 in Germany, the most demanding european car market, and that was really a part of their advertising. And i love it when people start calculating things and think they are smarter than the engineers at PSA that made the system, tested it and said it will do 90 g/km... A diesel engine is inherently more efficient than a gas engine, not only because of the higher density fuel, but also because of the higher thermal efficiency quotient. Toyota can try bending space and time, but they will not change that fact... I would really like to see the sales numbers for its first year against the Prius... in France. UK may be bitcin a lot about how crappy french cars are, but they are still buyng them like hot cakes (not that they are best-sellers).
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Hun Boon 8:08PM (6/13/2007)
Regarding Peugeot's poor showing in UK satisfaction surveys, a lot of it has to do with the poor customer service by the UK dealers. It's not just about the car itself.
I've been hearing about diesel-hybrids for the past 3 years, good to know it's finally coming!
Hun Boon
http://starbamboo.wordpress.com/
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nagmashot 2:25AM (6/14/2007)
The first diesel hybrid avaible for public was the 1997 Audi A4 duo. It combinied the 1.9 TDI (66kW) engine with a 21kW electro engine. It was a completly selling flop for Audi. Because of the high price and not enough green thinking in the world at that time.
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nagmashot 2:39AM (6/14/2007)
#12 agree
in europens largest reliablity statistic the ADAC Pannenstatistik 2006 frensh cars performe as good or bad as all other...no matter if Japanese German Frensh Italien...
ADAC reliabilty statistic is based on the analyse of 3.2million real car brake downs worked by the yellow angels of the ADAC... not consumer reports who can quote what ever they like ...
For the mpg ilk..the curret world record is still in the hands of the 2000 VW Lupo 3L TDI which reached in a around the world tour a average of over 100mpg(US) driven in real traffic with a average speed of over 50mph in a stock vehicle...
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Matt 6:51PM (6/14/2007)
Reliability wise my 10 year old Peugeot 106 now has almost 100,000 miles on the clock with nothing other than wear-and-tear (brake pads, battery etc) that needed to be sorted.
Still gets roughly 48mp-uk-g (thats a real, calculated figure by the way) too - not bad for a 10 year old car!
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shmuupy 8:48PM (6/15/2007)
looks much cooler than prius to me.
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