Bosch chairman doesn't see hybrids making a dent in CO2
Robert Bosch GmbH is the largest automotive supplier in the world and the Chairman of their automotive group Dr. Bernd Bohr doesn't see much of a future for hybrids, at least in Europe. Bohr projects that by 2015 less five percent of cars sold in Europe will be hybrids. He doesn't think hybrids of are of any value except in urban driving which is to a large extent true.
However, CAR magazine seems to think this Bohr's argument proves that hybrids will not gain any market traction which is ridiculous. Although most of the Euro manufacturers are developing hybrids, few have actually approved them for production. According to Bohr, the majority of automotive CO2 reductions will come from technology like stop-start systems and improved internal combustion technologies. Not surprisingly Bosch makes stop-start systems and fuel injection and engine management systems but not hybrid transmissions or batteries so Bohr might have a vested interest in putting down hybrids and promoting his own company's tech.
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[Source: CAR]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tony Belding 7:37PM (6/13/2007)
Despite all the hype about hybrids, I've always thought they were kind of a dodgy concept. It seems like a lot of expense and complexity just to wring a paltry few more MPG out of a car. I've never yet felt any urge to buy a Prius or any other hybrid, it just doesn't add up for me.
I don't think you really get a worthwhile payoff from hybrids until you go into plug-in hybrids (like the Chevy Volt). To me that's the real value of hybrids, the simple fact that they can lead into PHEV and BEV technology. Then you can start looking for those 100 to 130 MPG efficiencies that we really need, as well as truly moving away from petroleum fuel toward grid power. That's the end game, and it can't come soon enough.
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Hun Boon 7:41PM (6/13/2007)
"He doesn't think hybrids of are of any value except in urban driving which is to a large extent true."
Given that an increasing proportion of our roads are urban roads, I would say that hybrids are becoming more relevant by the day. Whether or not hybrid cars result in CO2 reduction is a different matter altogether.
Hun Boon
http://starbamboo.wordpress.com
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Chris M 2:27AM (6/14/2007)
"He doesn't think hybrids of are of any value except in urban driving which is to a large extent true."
False. I can speak from experience, my Prius gets its best milage on long freeway runs. Hybrids can get excellent milage on the freeway, as they can use a smaller engine sized to provide just enough power for crusing, and run it near its most efficient speed. The battery kicks in to provide extra power when needed for acceleration.
This is one of many pernicious myths about hybrids spread by the ignorant, those who are afraid of change, jealous rivals of the successful hybrid makers, and, of course, those suffering from Prius envy. With the impending arrival of electric cars from Tesla and Phoenix, stupid myths about EVs are starting to appear.
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Tman 3:02PM (6/14/2007)
"Bosch makes stop-start systems and fuel injection and engine management systems but not hybrid transmissions or batteries so Bohr might have a vested interest in putting down hybrids and promoting his own company's tech."
If hybrids start controlling a huge share of the market, Bosch would develop their own. I don't think they are trying to put down the technology. after all the new range of downsized turbocharged engined that are appearing in Europe would save more CO2 than hybrids as they would impact a far greater amounter of vehicles than the minuscule hybrid models a car maker can produce.
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Scatter 4:53AM (6/14/2007)
I don't get this. Is he talking about hybrids in their current incarnation only? I'd agree that hybrids as they stand won't make much of a dent in CO2 emissions but as soon as the manufacturers swap the engine and motor around i.e. get serious about plug in series hybrids then we'll be talking massive reductions in CO2 emissions - certainly a lot more than any improvements in engine technology can make.
Given that the automotive side to Bosch's business is mainly internal combustion engine parts and servicing, an electric future must be quite a threat to them - few parts, little servicing - a cold shiver must pass through him whenever he thinks about it!
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Owen 7:56AM (6/14/2007)
I challenge anyone to prove that if you were to remove the hybrid portion of your drivetrain and drive down that same highway with the same engine that you would not get close to the same gas mileage. There are many things on the Prius that help save mileage, tire width, aerodynamics, weight savings and the powertrain, but at speeds over 35, the hybrid part does little to help you except when merging from the on-ramp. The 1997 Civic HX got similar numbers in performance and economy for $10-15K less ten years ago with exactly that combination (minus the improved aerodynamics) but without the ecological nightmare of batteries. But the hybrid civic was more marketable AND profitable, so the HX went the way of the dodo. So... who's going to make the, "who killed the lean burn vtec?" movie? I can't wait to see what the 08 corolla hits for numbers seing as it will more than likely take an increase in size and power and weight (perhaps that's why it was delayed a year on the market). Just look at what they did to the xB, the new one gets dismal numbers, is that what the kids were asking for? We Americans have spoken; "Give me a bigger car with poor economy and charge me an extra $5-10K if I want better mileage !". Mileage equivalent to 10 years ago that is. Sorry, I will step off of my soapbox before the big 5.5 (now 6 again) send the men in black suits to silence me.
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Tim 10:18AM (6/14/2007)
Bosch is entrenched technology. They will fight change and this is to be expected.
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Travis Rassat 12:22PM (6/14/2007)
As a hybrid owner, I'll admit that I think the current state of hybrids are kind of a "gateway drug" to the next level, as they are certainly far from perfect. There are certainly disadvantages - the added battery weight, etc. The thing I like most about them is that they provide a platform upon which to challenge conventional thinking, and I think that has helped fire up the automakers in their efforts to innovate.
Nonetheless, the use of hybrid technology, start-stop technology, regenerative braking, new valvetrain technologies, Atkinson/Miller cycles, biofuels, etc. can all be used to complement each other very nicely and/or on their own to improve existing cars. The biggest factor in making a dent in CO2 is getting as much of this technology into as many cars as possible.
While I think the Bosch technologies can be beneficial in their own right, there's no honor in trying to spin the other technologies as crap just because they are not part of your business model.
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M1EK 12:43PM (6/14/2007)
"I challenge anyone to prove that if you were to remove the hybrid portion of your drivetrain and drive down that same highway with the same engine"
But that's the point. You wouldn't. Some would argue you couldn't. The 75hp gas engine in the Prius couldn't get you up to highway speed in a timeframe any of us would consider acceptable, if ever.
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MikeW 1:21PM (6/14/2007)
If the prius had a stick...
Like a nice short geared german car. 4,8,12,16,20,24
Peak torque@4200 peak power@5000, power drops off after 5K, so there is overrev to ~5500 (if need be)
Wouldn't the weight drop to ~2750lbs
$17.5 + delivery
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