Hybrid Civic driver averages 32 mpg, files class action lawsuit against Honda
John True, professional jazz piano player from California, has filed a class action lawsuit against American Honda Motor Co. for misleading mileage claims of the Honda Civic Hybrid. The question that this suit seems to revolve around is whether or not Honda misled consumers with inflated mileage claims. Did Honda imply that it is possible to get 49 miles per gallon in the city and 51 mpg on the highway? Is it impossible to meet those figures? Those are the questions that will be considered in the suit. Sage Marie, speaking on behalf of Honda, said that the "vast majority of Civic Hybrid customers are satisfied with the performance since it delivers consistently and substantially higher numbers than comparable non hybrid vehicles in the real world. It is possible to attain the EPA estimates, and customers do all the time."
John True was only able to average 32 miles per gallon, which is WAY below the EPA's old estimates. You may recall that the EPA has changed the way that they do their testing to better reflect what drivers are likely to achieve in real life. Another question that the suit will attempt to answer was whether Honda knew that their car would not average what the EPA tests showed. If they knew that the car was not going to get those numbers, should they base their advertising around them? Also, some have suggested that Honda and Toyota may have written the software of the vehicles to perform well in the old EPA tests. If that is true, does it seem unethical to anybody? Remember, though, that nothing of this sort has been proven.
This may very well be the first time a manufacturer has been sued over unrealistic mileage claims. If this one is successful, it would not be shocking to see more like it in the future.
UPDATE: Read AutoblogGreen's exclusive interview with John True here.
Related:
- EPA does something about unrealistic mileage figures for new autos
- Your mileage will vary. On the new MPG estimates coming in 2008
[Source: The Detroit News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Alt fuels manager 10:08PM (2/02/2008)
What is this 32mpg? It seems that that is the defalt number. I sell Hondas and Toyotas. we had a lady with the same thing 32mpg. Since I'm the expert, I was glad to lend a hand. So I go and pick the car up. I told her I will drive it 150 miles or so and when I bring it back and it has over 45mpg on it will you be mad? She said it was broke and I wont get that mileage. I said OK, I will see you tomorrow.
I drove it back to my dealer (reset the mpg computer when I left her) it was 17 miles back to the dealer. I took a picture and emailed it to her with it reading 46.1mpg. I drove 60 to 70mph 2/3s hwy and rest stop & go.
I drove a very long way home (50 miles on a 11 mile ride home, I took the loop around Cleveland Oh w/ the A/C on)I pulled in my driveway @ 46.8 mpg. The next morning I took my daughter to the sitter (20 miles away) then took my son to school (22 miles from where I droped my daughter off. I then took a long way to work. I called her and said I'm coming to drop her car off and I will tell her about the car when I get there.
I pulled in with 48.6 mpg on the clock and a sheet of paper of driving tips. She was pissed. I said you have to change your driving habbits. These cars are more sencitive then other non hybrids. What she was doing were all no no's. Late for work and driving like crazy, letting the car sit in her drivway while it cools off or warms up, talking on her cell phone driving and sitting idle in the parking garage. All things you don't do with any car. She is now getting 40mpg. All she needed was a good teacher.
I delivered 23 Civic Hybrids in the past 6 weeks and over 150 hybrids in the past 5 years. Only a few of my customers are not getting the mileage that it sez on the window.
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Louie 10:46PM (4/08/2008)
I have an 05 HCH. I can get 46.5-48 all day. If I try real hard 50 MPG. It takes planed driving and a skilled foot. I couldn't get less then 40, believe me I have pushed the throttle. Now my wife- 42-45 MPG can't seem to get her to drive it like a hybrid.
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Lee 6:56PM (10/11/2008)
Got an '08 civic hybrid and it started out great, but three tankfuls of gas later and it changed for the worse.
I'm in canada so we do liters per 100 km. We were in the low 5's and even cruised for a while at 4.9 and were ecstatic. Then something changed and if I can stay in the low 6's I have to be happy. Right now it's sitting at 7.7 and I'm pretty darned mad about it.
I drive even more conservatively now than I did getting 4.9, and still can't get it down to that level anymore. Have had the car since June and I'm wishing like anything we'd gone and bought a prius.
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Bonnie71 4:11PM (9/02/2009)
I also have an 08 Civic Hybrid and got great mileage for the first 14 months, then it nosedived--from 44-48 mpg to 37-38 mpg. The dealer tried to fix it (it is still under warranty) but it isn't any better. When I called to tell them, they told me there is nothing more they can do, as did the national Honda hotline. Are we stuck with our bum Civics?
bobmorehead 4:52AM (3/31/2009)
You must have exaggerated. I break and speed often and I got 50mpg on my modified Mercedes-Benz C280. Total weight 3,750 lbs. Your Honda is like a toy, it's not a car to protect you in case of crucial accident, you're a turtle. Those who think about buying a hybrid should consider checking out this site www.extra150miles.com
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Bob McGrath 5:13AM (5/21/2009)
I have a 07 honda civic hybrid. I get 34mpg. If I drive like on old man or a lead foot, it stays close to the same. I met a young man with a 08 honda civic hybrid and we played follow the leader for an hour. He got 49 mpg to my 34.6 mpg., What isn't Honda telling me.
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aaronandaliciadyer 8:28AM (10/24/2009)
The HCH is a rip off! My husband drives it like he's 95 years old and it only gets 32....seems to be the average number. Honda knew their product would catch the consumer eye with the high gas prices and they could rip everybody off!
Just wait until you have to replace your hybrid battery at about 100,000 miles! They cost $10,000.00. These cars are a rip off with the high priced oil changes and replacement parts....
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cgn9598 3:03PM (11/21/2009)
I purchased my 08 HCH brand new a year ago. I go 45-48 in the city and over 50 on the highway, but now, a year and half later I can't break 33 in the city and on the highway. I purchased this car for the mileage and I feel cheated. I want to know what my rights are and I want to help others who have been mislead by Honda.
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Earl 10:47AM (7/06/2007)
This guy is probably a lead foot that races to every light just to slam on the brakes. I can get 55-60 mpg in my Honda Insight, when my girlfriend drives it she gets 35 mpg. Driving technique is a huge part of getting great mileage with a hybrid.
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Travis Rassat 11:13AM (7/06/2007)
I agree, Earl - my wife doesn't get nearly the mileage out of our Camry Hybrid than I do, and her driving style is not really that different than mine. I'm just a little bit smoother, I guess. I also have experimented with taking different routes that work better for the hybrid.
Perhaps Mr. True would let me drive his car. I'd check the tire pressures and clean out the trunk first. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Gordio 8:39PM (7/06/2007)
What does suing honda do? The EPA numbers are by the EPA not honda. And didn't honda reduce the civic hybrid's original EPA (this is before the new system), becuase it was too high (like the prius) and honda didn't want people to be disappointed like they were with the prius's #s?
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Boone Pickens 11:35AM (7/06/2007)
He's probably lugging his piano around in the Civic. I have an 06 NON-Hybrid Civic and I'm averaging 35mpg with an average speed of 70mph on the highway.
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Chris 11:33AM (7/06/2007)
I think it would be hard to find wrong-doing here on the part of Honda. The EPA does the tests, and I don't know of any laws prohibiting a car manufacturer from designing their cars to do as best as possible on the tests.
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Mike Z 11:43AM (7/06/2007)
Actually If I remember correctly, car manufacturers are forbidden to advertise anything other than the EPA numbers.
This case should be thrown out in a second. Its the EPA's fault, not Honda's.
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ug 1:06PM (7/06/2007)
The bigger issue is the public expects big gains in hybrid MPG but that isn't going to happen with parallel hybrids, only serial plugins. This is all just paving the way for the Volt and similar cars to crush the parallel hybrid market.
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hUckIE 1:28PM (7/06/2007)
I've had my Civic Hybrid since August of '06 and it has consistently averaged 42.5 mpg in combined driving, dead on with the new EPA estimates (and that's in San Francisco WITH hills). I think the old 49 mpg city was completely impossible to achieve in anything even remotely resembling real world driving. However, the 51 mpg highway was not unreasonable if you limit your speed to 55-60 mph. At a more typical 70-75 mph, the new estimate of 45 mpg is totally reasonable and easily achievable.
I could see the guy getting that low of gas mileage if he only drives in the city, has a total lead foot, and he drives trips of less than 2-3 miles. It typically takes the car 15 minutes or so to warm up and even start using the gas saving features (like auto-stop and regenerative braking). I don't think his lawsuit has a leg to stand on.
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elson 12:18PM (10/16/2009)
I had an '08 HCH-II and got about 50 MPG with it before it got wrecked. I have an '09 now, and have been getting a consistent 52 MPG for a full tank in combined city/hwy driving going to work. This is with the required E10 gasohol, too, it does better on straight gasoline, but I can't get that in my area, same as yours. Hills DO have a negative effect, but it isn't a killer, just a few MPG. I believe on city streets where traffic is moving relatively well, with moderate hills, even, I could easily do over 60 MPG. Stop and go traffic will kill the MPG, of course.
Jon
kballs 1:49PM (7/06/2007)
Honda should lend him a non-hybrid Civic for a couple months and make him see that mileage drop to 25MPG so he can see that hybrids DO improve mileage in comparison to non-hybrid, but you'll do terrible with either if you drive it like you stole it.
With all the points made in the comments, it does sound like he's driving mostly < 5 mile trips, on hills, with a loaded car, low tire pressure, and a lead foot. He probably lives 3 miles from work with a big hill in between.
I agree that series hybrids (electric with range extender) will be more efficient for short trips, stop-and-go, etc. than parallel hybrids, but efficiency will always suffer if you drive it like you stole it.
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Culex 1:52PM (7/06/2007)
32? Driving like a complete jerk and being as agressive as possible I find it nearly impossible to get less than 40mpgs in my HCH.
However with my normal driving habits I routinely get 50+. Yes I have learned a bit from the hybrid... less agressive starts, more awareness of lights and traffic off in the distance (coasting opportunities), etc. and yet these are really nothing more than we were taught back in drivers-ed decades ago.
And I also have heard that the manufactures have to advertise the EPA numbers by law. Toyota wanted to advertise slightly lower numbers to more accurately reflect what they felt their Prius was getting but had to stick with the EPA #.
Step 1, check the car out with a thorough dealer inspection. If everything is fine then Step 2, have other people drive it. If (when) MPGs goes up, guy loses. Case dismissed.
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Tim 5:10PM (7/06/2007)
What ever happened to loser pays? Oh, that's right. It would stop too many frivolous lawsuits, so the self-serving attorney’s in congress killed it. Always look and see if your favorite political candidate is an attorney. If he is, vote for someone (anyone) else.
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