Toyota execs skeptical about PHEV market acceptance
Toyota may have been on the bleeding edge of developing strong parallel hybrids for production cars, but when it comes to plug-ins they're not quite so enthusiastic. In an interview with Bloomberg, Toyota's Bill Reinert expresses skepticism about the demand for plug-in hybrids. The main concern seems to be whether consumers would be willing to pay the $5,000 to $10,000 premium that might be necessary for the batteries required for plug-in capability. While that is certainly a valid concern, another reason Toyota is publicly lukewarm to PHEVs might be the difficulties that Toyota's battery supplier Panasonic is having. Panasonic is developing lithium ion batteries based on cobalt oxide chemistry which has high energy density and poor thermal stability.
[Source: Bloomberg]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tony Belding 11:02AM (8/26/2007)
Remember Toyota is the same company that advertised their hybrids with the boast that, "You never have to plug it in." Heaven forbid!
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Jankdc 11:10PM (8/26/2007)
If they build it well, we will buy.
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jim 7:46AM (8/27/2007)
Toyota is on to hard truth, people want the car to reflect something positive about them, but simply want to get in their cars and go.
They will not want to be plugging them in or dealing with electricians about getting special charging units installed if necessary.
The beauty of the current hybrids is that it is invisible in operation.
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Alex 9:35AM (8/27/2007)
A plug in hybrid system is not going to appeal to a broad enough audience. For the most part if you don't have a private driveway to pull into, you are not going to be too interested in a plug-in. Additionally it'll be impractical if your place of employment doesn't provide a convenient outlet near your car.
Adding a range extending ICE is a great idea, but still, with out the close at hand outlet you are SOL.
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Tony Belding 10:53AM (8/27/2007)
I'm dismayed by some of the attitudes I see. I don't know what compels anyone to dream up silly reasons for electric cars to fail.
Today's hybrids are "invisible in operation" until the gas tank runs dry. Going to a filling station is a hassle, but it's a hassle that people are long accustomed to. I suspect many would find plug-in cars more convenient after giving them a chance.
Curb-side charging is no big problem. It's easy to design an outdoors or curbside charging unit; it's just that nobody is making them now because there are practically no electric cars on the market. I'm sure the first cars will be sold to people who have garages (Who would leave a $100K Tesla parked outside?), but it's not going to end there.
I'm not sure why Alex thinks an electric car would ". . . be impractical if your place of employment doesn't provide a convenient outlet near your car." You can still charge at home, right? That should solve your problem. (For that matter, if plug-in cars catch on, why *wouldn't* employers want to make charging available?)
"Adding a range extending ICE is a great idea, but still, with out the close at hand outlet you are SOL."
How so? Even if you *never* plug in a PHEV, you could still use it as a conventional non-plug-in hybrid. And I think it's fair to say most people have electrical outlets in their garages, so where's the problem?
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K Smith 1:10PM (8/27/2007)
While I would say that most people do have electrical outlets in their garage, most people do not have garages. So it is a hassle for them. In many neighborhoods you can't even be sure that you can park in front of your own house (having lived in row homes, I can attest to this). So it's a problem for them. too. Outdoor charging units? It's hard enough to keep criminals from stealing your catalytic converter, let alone an outdoor charging unit. I'm not against PHEVs - I'd like to have one - but it doesn't gain anything over a parallel hybrid for the majority of folks out there.
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Der Alte 1:52AM (8/28/2007)
Perhaps this is Toyota's way of saying that this time they're not willing to take the big risk and be among the first to jump into the breach. Let GM take the risk and if it turns out to be something, they'll have some form of the technology brewing in the background that they'll be able to get to market fairly quickly. I think they're still pushing ahead with some form of plug in R&D because there is a chance it could succeed and they don't want to be caught with their pants completely down if this takes off. They're just a lot of obstacles in the way that might give a company pause for concern.
While not everybody has the ability to plug in a PHEV at home, many would. If enough people buy in, employers might start providing spots to plug in along with shopping malls and other places. If that happens the market will grow further and then cities will jump on board and provide plug in spaces on public lots and perhaps one day on every street corner. Its not going to all happen overnight that's for sure. If this really takes off the market will be huge and there will be plenty of pie left for Toyota if they can get a product together without too much delay while the sea change begins. If the PHEV revolution flops (which I find doubtful) then Toyota will have lost very little and still have some very well developed conventional hybrids to sell.
To me Toyota's decision just seems like a prudent business move. GM on the other hand needs something radical and must create a revolution of sorts if it is going to remain a dominant player in the 21st century. Toyota has nothing to lose and GM has everything to gain.
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Tony Belding 12:58PM (8/29/2007)
K Smith. . . An outdoor charging unit wouldn't particularly easy or safe to try and steal, since it's physically attached to the ground and carries potentially dangerous electrical currents, and probably isn't worth a whole lot anyhow. It would be much easier and more lucrative for somebody to come along and siphon your gas, or take the wheels off your car -- or take your car, for that matter.
So, why is an electric car any worse in this regard? I mean, if you can't keep an electric car outside your home where you live, how can you keep any kind of car there?
Anyhow, I don't live in a city, I never have. I live in a small town where a large majority of people have garages, or at least sheltered carports. Crime isn't completely unknown -- but I've always left my keys in my car, and I've never heard of one being stolen around here. In the last 20 years nobody's even taken anything out of the back of my pickup truck, much less taken the truck. (Well. . . Maybe the gun rack and the NRA sticker helps too.)
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Tormod Henne 5:21PM (8/31/2007)
This video showing the Prius plug-in may indicate that there is some work being done...
http://www.dn.no/dntv/nyheter/article1142874.ece
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