BMW. Diesel. Twin-Turbo. U.S. WooHoo!
Finally! We can now write a post featuring a diesel from BMW and tell you that it's coming to the United States. Soon, drivers in America will be able to purchase a BMW model, the 3-Series for instance, and get it with a 3.0 liter twin-turbo diesel six cylinder. BMW would like consumers to think of this engine as an alternative to hybrid models. Although BMW entered an agreement to develop and market hybrid vehicles with GM and DaimlerBenz/Chrysler, they believe that many of the same benefits that hybrids enjoy can also be had in a diesel. They are probably right, considering that the diesel engine will be no performance slouch, offering 286 hp and 427 lb-ft. (578 Nm) of torque. In addition, when installed in the 3-Series, the diesel will return 35 miles per gallon in the combined cycle. With numbers like those, it would compare rather favorably with Lexus' so-called "performance-hybrids". The last hurdle will be the price, and according to our source article, expect to pay a $2,000 - $3,000 increase over the regular 3.0 liter gas engine. Considering how good that gas engine is, it might be a tough-sell for those looking at nothing more than the sticker price. Because the diesel model will look pretty much the same as the regular model, those looking to show the world their green-ness may look elsewhere, but for those who truly care about their fuel usage and their emissions, this diesel may be just what they were waiting for.
[Source: Wards Auto via Autoblog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dave 9:17AM (1/31/2008)
I love the idea of a BMW diesel! I wonder if the the 335 diesel or the X5 diesel will run on bio fuel? Does anyone know? Thanks!
Reply
Frank 7:52PM (2/29/2008)
All this talk of linear comparison of price versus savings does not account for the fact that the diesel has a much higher resale valus, maybe the WHOLE premium. Or that the savings are much higher than a typical lease or finance premium if you do some mileage.
Reply
Bruce 9:18AM (3/11/2008)
I hope they also offer the diesel in the 3 series 2 door with manual transmission and not just the sedan. I would LOVE to get a new 335D 6 speed convertible in 2009!
Reply
Jon Lee 7:28AM (4/08/2008)
Don't forget the European experience (especially as new generation diesels started to take off in popularity) is that they hold their value much much better than Gas (petrol) cars. In the UK I think Gas is increasingly reserved for performance cars and it can be hard to sell on a petrol family car or SUV.
Reply
Alex Nunez 10:48AM (10/03/2007)
All it's going to take is one test drive to sway customers who are able to pay the $3K premium (obv, $3K is no small amount of money, and BMW stickers add up quickly anyway when you start checking off the options, so that doesn't apply to everyone). That said, these modern diesels are a win all the way around. That's very good fuel economy, with essentially zero penalty in terms of power. Nice.
Reply
Matt 11:07AM (10/03/2007)
BMW please offer the 335d in a touring model with sport package.... I would give a deposit now.
Reply
tim 11:13AM (10/03/2007)
WooHoo! for the rich, but it will have ZERO impact on "global warming".
Reply
Karkus 11:31AM (10/03/2007)
Wow, this is sweet, and I think $2-3k extra won't deter too many typical BMW buyers.
I checked, and cars like the 335 are indeed listed at ~35mpg (US) combined on the UK (europen?) fuel economy tests ! That's amazing for that kind of performance. Bring it over here already.
Sure, a few rich people switching from a gas to diesel isn't going to solve the global warming problem, but anything helps. There is no one solution that will fix it. If YOU are waiting for big companies/governments to "fix" it, then YOU are part of the problem. YOU need to be doing your part, even if it does seem minor (and then convince your neighbors/family/friends to do something too).
And it's not just about global warming anyway. Reducing our dependence on oil is key too, from both a personal and national economic standpoint.
Reply
Andrew Tanasescu 12:00PM (10/03/2007)
Anyone know the actually C02 emission rating?
Reply
steven 12:16PM (10/03/2007)
@3: I would think a car that has "zero impact on global warming" would be a good thing! You really meant no impact on improving the global warming issue, right? However, BMW sold 1.3 MILLION cars and truck last year. In other words 1 out of every 55 cars/trucks sold world-wide was a BMW (or Mini or Rolls-Royce). It follows that if you can increase the fuel mileage on a vehicle by 20-30%, your are proportionately decreasing the amount carbon-based fuel burned, and therefore decreasing the green house gases generated and introduced into the atmosphere. Not saying you'll see as direct 20-30% decrease in the gases, but less is less. And yes, we know diesel haters, there are other "issues" with diesels. But this IS INDEED a good thing for more than the just rich. The poor get to breath that clear air too remember.
Reply
Phil L. 12:23PM (10/03/2007)
...and a succesful diesel BMW will encourage others to bring models to the US. Ford and GM (who already have small diesels elsewhere in the world): Are you listening?
Reply
steven 12:37PM (10/03/2007)
@5: 335d SE (auto): 177 g/km
535d SE (auto): 178 g/km
Reply
KenC 1:30PM (10/03/2007)
The price difference bothers me. They sell more diesels in europe than gas-engined cars. Without looking up the price differences in europe, I'll guess that the difference is modest, $1000 at most, not $2 to $3k.
If I drive 100k in the lifetime of the 3-series, I'd use roughly 4000 gallons of gas, or 3000 gallons of diesel. That 1000 gallon difference is about $3000 today. So, BMW's price premium for diesel is going to eat up any savings one gets on fuel. That's greedy!
I've had 4 BMWs, but I'm thinking about getting something else, if this diesel model isn't reasonably priced.
Reply
Karkus 2:42PM (10/03/2007)
Sure, $2000-3000 extra is a lot to most of us used to cars costing around $20k, but for these BMWs which cost roughly twice that, it's probably not that big a deal. For example, Lexus isn't having any problems getting rich people to buy their loaded hybrid models costing thousands more.
And, assuming the gas savings roughly evens out the diesel premium (like #9 says), why is that such a bad thing ? You pay the same thing overall but get reduced CO2 and foreign oil dependency. Sounds OK to me.
Also, on note on CO2 calculations: If switching to diesel gets you 30% more MPG (for example), it does NOT reduce CO2 by that much. Diesel has a ~10% higher carbon/energy density than gasoline, so you have to subtract that out. Still, diesel is more efficient (by roughly 20%) in this example.
Reply
rgseidl 2:58PM (10/03/2007)
(a) twin turbos are arranged in parallel. BMW's recent diesel engines feature sequential turbos. The difference is very substantial.
(b) diesel fuel economy in the NEDC for the 330d RWD is 6.1L/100km (160gCO2/km). For your orientation only, this translates to the following *unofficial* mileage estimates:
38.6 MPGus (diesel, NEDC)
35.7 MPGus (diesel, EPA comb. old)
32.5 MPGus (gasoline equivalent, EPA comb. old)
31.6 MPGus (diesel, EPA comb. new)
28.7 MPGus (gasoline equivalent, EPA comb. new)
In the US, different safety regs mean the car has to be modified. Also, the drive cycle is different and presently being cut over to a new formulation. These caveats are very roughly accounted for in the above numbers.
(c) the markup for diesels will be higher in the US than in Europe. This is mostly due to the very expensive NOx aftertreatment systems required to meet EPA and CARB emissions standards.
(d) it may be inappropriate to compare the price of a 3.0L sequential turbodiesel (170kW/500Nm) to the 3.0L naturally aspirated gasoline engine (200kW/320Nm).
True, the diesel is 10% slower in a 0-62mph sprint, but in daily driving you won't be taking either vehicle to anywhere near its limits anyhow. Instead, you'll appreciate the substantially lower cabin noise level of the diesel, which can produce far more power at low engine RPM, so you/the AT can afford to shift up early to save fuel.
Consider that when comparing prices, especially if you tend to take long trips on the freeway. Choosing a manual transmission is a good way to reduce the cost of a diesel vehicle - if you know how to operate one.
Reply
mike 8:13PM (10/03/2007)
KenC, very Astute observation.
Almost ALL industry's seem to PRICE GOUGE the Green's. Being green is a way to tell marketeers you can AFFORD to pay more. And, you'll do it because you're buying for some other reason, like saving the planet. It's not just Cars, but energy efficient appliances as well. But, they really are KILLING SALES with this tactic. More people would be green and buy these types of vehicles IF WE GOT SOME OF THE SAVINGS, so, I'll have to shop elsewhere, because they've made it too expensive for me.
Also, Where's the BMW One that gets 50-60 mpg? Do I have to wait for all the Horsepower WACKO's to get the big engines first? Or is it, that a 50 mpg BMW would make the whole fleet of other BMW cars look like Expensive Stupid Toys. I'm sure there's a marketing reason for this INSANE decision.
Reply
justin 10:59PM (10/03/2007)
Maybe this could lead to a Mini D also; for the wife.
Reply
spdracerut 10:54AM (10/04/2007)
The companies are not 'price gouging', it's a simple fact that diesel engines are more expensive than gas engines. Furthermore, BMW diesels use a very advance and complex turbo systems which allow them to meet their emissions AND power targets.
Also, there IS a significant price difference between diesels and gas cars in Europe. After a quick look at the BMW UK website, a 335 costs 31550 pounds and 335d costs 33610 pounds; so a difference of 2060 pounds, or roughly $4000.
Even on a car like a Peugeot 207, the difference between diesel and gas is like 2k euros (~2.8k dollars). However, the payback is much quicker. Premium gas is ~$8.80 a gallon, diesel is ~$7 a gallon. I think the payback is roughly 40000 km, or ~25k miles.
Reply
David Mau 8:57AM (10/04/2007)
I have the same sentiments about "where is the diesel 1 series" I even wrote my House of Rep. about the fact that BMW isn't bringing the diesel 1 series that gets 50-60 mpg and it has decent acceleration! Why we can't just order one online from Germany and have it shipped here is due to mostly from Federal government getting in the way. A BMW that gets 50/60 mpg, goes 0-60 in 7-8 seconds and should cost less than $30k is a no brainer.
Reply
dean 1:58AM (10/12/2007)
Yeah, it kind of sucks that the extra cost of extra emissions equipment takes its toll money saved at the pump, but then again, these extra measures make it about as clean as a gas engine. Plus, compared to a 6-cylinder gas engine, less CO2.
We trade money for helping to save the environment. Yeah, its not a huge hit, but if everyone started finding little ways to help put less CO2 in the air, or less garbage in landfills, etc... the impact would obviously be bigger.
On another note, I suppose the diesel engine is best suited for a person who drives many miles. Not just 12k, but 15, or 20k per year. It would take a lot less time to recover the initial investment.
Reply