Comparing the Lexus LS600h to the Mercedes-Benz S420 CDI and BMW 745d - is it even a contest?
The Lexus LS600h is by far the most expensive production hybrid yet and it has just gone on sale in Europe. To date hybrids have not been as popular in Europe as the dominant diesels. AutoSpies has decided to pit the big Lexus against the established Mercedes-Benz S420 CDI and the BMW 745d. The Germans are both propelled by diesel V-8s while the Lexus uses the latest version of Toyota's hybrid synergy drive. If this test is any indication, the Germans have little to worry about for now. As expected the LS came out on top in urban fuel economy with 24mpg compared to 19.4 and 20.3 for the BMW and Mercedes. On the Autobahn, though, and cruising at 111 mph, the hybrid plummeted to 9.6 mpg while the Germans still managed 14.1 and 15.3 mpg respectively. In overall driving the Lexus also trailed. The hybrid battery pack also takes a toll on the trunk space of the Lexus. In spite of the LS600h's size, the trunk measures a mere 11.4 cu.ft while the BMW can hold 17.6 cu.ft and the Mercedes trunk measures 19.8 cu.ft.
[Source: AutoSpies]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
stevejust 9:44AM (10/04/2007)
Well... that's great. Now I know diesels are better when I'm traveling 110 mph down the autobahn, but that the hybrid is the way to go when I'm in stop and go traffic on the 405 freeway in LA.
Not that this is ever going to end the debate on hybrid vs. diesel, and as anyone who reads my comments knows, I think the "debate" is stupid and we should be talking about hybrid diesels being run on biodiesel rather than as two technologies that are mutually exclusive... but... I'd still like to know how the comparison looked at, say, 75 or 80 mph. I assume the diesels would still do better, but I wonder if that would close the gap or not.
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GoodCheer 11:10AM (10/04/2007)
I would assume that driving at any constant speed the diesels will do better. The metric of note is not average speed but frequency and magnitude of variations to the average speed.
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Costas Calas 3:56PM (10/04/2007)
Let's not forget the negative environmental impact of hubrids during the manufacturing process (significant amount of additional systems) as well as the recycling issues.
What do you need these monster cars for anyway? Show that you have somehow "arrived"?
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stevejust 1:15PM (10/04/2007)
GoodCheer: I agree diesels would do better at constant speeds above 30 mph or so-- I think the electric assist is good for something. I'm just wondering how much better they would do if instead of 111 mph we were talking 80 mph. Does the gap close at more realistic driving speeds (for the US at least).
And again, I would love to live somewhere where I didn't have to stop and go every 1.1 minutes in my car. But I don't like the suburbs or exurbs.
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Zerk 6:49PM (10/04/2007)
There is no future for diesels according to Autoblog blogger Lascelles Linton.
You can't be green and support diesel per Lascelles.
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mannisto.ilkka 4:52AM (10/05/2007)
"What do you need these monster cars for anyway? Show that you have somehow "arrived"?"
As a corollary:
What do you need big house for? What do you need a holiday abroad for (or outside your home city)?
The point is .. most things that have a negative effect on the environment aren't needed. Exec cars should be banned, Priuses (limited to 55 mph max) for everyone, nobody should have houses with more than 200 sqf per person, no air travel for recreational purposes (like holidays), you should only be allowed to drive to work 5 times per week and 2 times a week to a store and maybe once per week on your own discretion one 30 mile trip.
All other things aren't strictly 'needed'.
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kailua 5:33AM (10/05/2007)
You know what I find so ironic about these psuedo-hippie wanna bee tree huggers who complain about why anyone "needs" such a big auto are the same hypocrites who are the first ones to run out and by a trendy iPhone or the lastest generation iPod or Macbook, etc. Gee I guess when these hypocrites are drinking their $5 venti size Starbucks frapachino, they fail to realize the environmental impact of all those coffee plantations in south america that where once rain forest, just to fee their elitest fake lifestyle. Or how about your trendy chinese made Ecko shoes and bape clothing? Yeah china is the model of environmental responsibility. Or how about that blunt your smoking in in your studio apartment in west hollywood, as you try to break into the hollywood scene as a production assistant? Yeah, that doesn't affect the environment. Talk about the pot calling the kettle back.
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mannisto.ilkka 6:29AM (10/05/2007)
Yeah, kailua, I agree. Talk about missing the big picture.
DiCaprio is so green he bought 3 Priuses, since, you know, if one Prius is green, 3 Priuses are 3 times as green ;-)
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Chris Adams 8:02AM (10/05/2007)
Agree with the principal of what you are saying kailua but enough Apple bashing already! The products typically last longer than most computers and there are a hosts of folks waiting to buy 2nd hand. I just sold a 3 year old PowerMac G5 on ebay for $1700. Now that's recycling! :) Regarding the diesel vs. hybrid argument, I'm with ya 100%. Between a Lexus RX hybrid and a Benz ML diesel I made the obvious choice - DIESEL ALL THE WAY BABY! And if the $hit ever does hit the fan and the economy collapses I can brew my own fuel to boot.
Maybe the elitist's argument could include a "mile bank." If you carpool once a week with someone else in their Prius enough times you earn the "right" to take an "unauthorized" trip somewhere outside a 50 mile radius of home....LOL
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JSacharuk 10:08AM (10/05/2007)
Okay, on the subject of coffee, Starbucks -- while vendors of some of the absolute worst brown water in the world to be referred to as 'coffee' -- aren't actually terrible corporate citizens. They pay plantations a fair price for coffee, and do encourage sustainable farming. If you're really a hippie coffee snob, though, you should be going to a local shop and buying fresh-roasted coffee from verifiable locations.
Now, on the topic of diesel vs. hybrid and large cars, there's a lot of hybrid technology that just makes good sense. Regenerative brakes, auto-shutoff engines, etc. Diesels are good commuting cars as well, though stop and go traffic does have a big impact on their economy. They're light idlers, fortunately -- my 1.9L TDI uses less than half a litre of diesel per hour while idling. Not great, but not bad, either.
Diesel hybrids are apparently a fair challenge to make, but Mercedes is working on it. I'm happy to see the two types of engine competing; great strides are suddenly being made with both. Diesels are cleaner now, hybrids are a good start. Ultimately, however, the best way to save gas is just to not drive. Move closer to your job, take public transport, walk or ride your bike. Save driving for when it's actually fun. Commuting is a drag; what a waste of my time in a car.
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geekmorgan 11:43AM (10/05/2007)
This Lexus hybrid gets WORSE mileage than the non-hybrid version, AND its slower and heavier and more expensive. This car is only for clueless rich people who want to appear as though they care for the environment.
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Sam Abuelsamid 12:59PM (10/05/2007)
The lack of diesel hybrids mainly comes down to cost. Diesel engines are more expensive than gas engines. Similarly, hybrids are also more expensive. The cost of diesel hybrids is likely seen as prohibitively expensive for the current market in the US at least. Until now diesel emissions have been an issue as well. As new clean diesels become available and demands for even higher mileage increase we will probably start to see some diesel hybrids. Peugeot has been actively working on diesel hybrids and plans to introduce one 2009 although we won't see it here.
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AMcA 11:10AM (10/06/2007)
I utterly desire a V8 diesel.
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blingo 4:55PM (10/07/2007)
Comparisons like that should really be corrected for fuel properties. One liter of diesel-oil is not equal to one liter of petrol regarding mass, energy content and CO2-potential. Some difference therefore is just volumetric observation and the Lexus actually looks better than reported in terms of energy efficiency. It's an AWD, by the way...
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Chris M 2:44AM (10/09/2007)
Replying to "geekmorgan": The Lexus LS600h does get better milage and better performance than the non-hybrid equivalent LS, but it is a very large luxury car, and the milage isn't as good as some smaller Lexus models, including the Lexus RX400h hybrid SUV.
The Lexus LS600h was really designed as a luxury land yacht, giving stiff competition to the high end Maybach. It is only for rich people who mostly like to pamper themselves and show off their wealth, with fuel economy a secondary concern.
People whos main concern is fuel economy will look elsewhere, and both the Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid are posh enough for most people.
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