Do big company electric car concepts herald trouble ahead for Tesla and other start-ups?
We've bringing exciting news - in the most recent cases, from the Tokyo Motor Show preview series - about major automakers that are bringing out all-electric concepts. Last week, for example, we learned about the very practical Subaru G4e. Back at the Frankfurt Motor Show, Nissan announced it will bring an EV to market based on the Mixim concept. Big companies making sensible, small EVs. Good news all around, right? Not quite, says C-NET.
Michael Kanellos wonders out loud if cars like the G4e (should it get produced) might not be the death knell for all of the other electric cars we talk about on AutoblogGreen, you know, the cars from smaller companies like Miles and Zenn and Tesla. He writes:
Still, the bad news for Think, Miles, Zap, and even companies noodling toward sedans like Tesla, is that the big manufacturers are interested. There's more to making electric cars than designing batteries. It also involves building huge, expensive factories, setting up a dealer network, and getting volume discounts on things like plastic electric window switches. These are the kinds of logistical problems that big manufacturers have down cold--and that start-ups will have trouble matching.
Kanellos goes on to talk about crash testing (something we just found video of, in Tesla's case), and that customers will feel safer in a Subaru EV than a Miles EV. Point taken. But if that Subaru never gets built, then Miles et al. win. If it does, though ...
[Source: C-NET]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tony Belding 9:47AM (10/15/2007)
CNet has got it all wrong.
When electric cars catch on, it won't be Miles, Th!nk, Phoenix and Tesla who are suffering. The ones hurting will be car companies who haven't invested in this technology and don't have anything electric to offer.
Reply
Domenick 10:08AM (10/15/2007)
I think that some of the smaller companies may enjoy an edge amongst consumers with a long abiding interest in the technology. A lot of their success may be determined by whether or not they can get a quality product to the public soon enough and also supply the type of customer support their target market would appreciate.
"Goodwill" may be an important intangible as the type of people who want to drive an electric vehicle may not appreciate some of the past and/or current business practices and/or product lines of established car companies. For instance, the fact that GM will be building and selling cars in Uzbekistan with it's human rights record somewhere in the vicinity of Burma's irks me to no end.
It may prove to be that EV's and serial hybrids become a quickly enlarging market with room for traditional and non-traditional manufactures alike. Of course, until someone starts releasing product it's all speculation.
Reply
Mort 10:31AM (10/15/2007)
There is a growing dissatisfaction with the bigs. They have bullied gubbermint policy and forced the greens to settle for crap. If given a choice I will buy from a small company with a quality product, rather than a corporate fascist with a long record of wanton destruction.
Reply
scatter 11:02AM (10/15/2007)
I think they could potentially get hurt but I do feel that niche car manufacturers will play a very significant role in the future. One possible sticking point is the aftersales support. In my view it would be worth having the startup EV manufacturers collaborate to develop a support network for their products.
One plus point for the niche manufacturers is that they are small and flexible and will hopefully be able to put out more experimental and daring designs than the majors who are conservative, lumbering behemoths with long product development times.
There's a fascinating vision of a very different future for at least part of the industry here:
http://www.authenticbusiness.co.uk/archive/oscarproject/
Reply
Ernie 11:37AM (10/15/2007)
That would imply that big car companies actually *want* to make electric cars, and that the public at large *wants* to buy them. This is the big question mark that hangs over the whole thing.
Quite honestly though, if the big auto manufacturers actually get a product to market and actually get sales enough to kill the little guys, then the little guys have succeeded in their goals of saving the world well beyond their wildest imaginations. They just won't make any money at it.
Reply
why not the LS2/LS7? 12:01PM (10/15/2007)
I don't care who makes my electric car, and I don't care if Martin Eberhard loses his butt on Tesla. He knew the risks getting in, as GM beat him to the market and he knew it (and used that to his advantage).
I'm not excited about electric cars because I want to stick it to the big auto companies. I am excited about electric cars because of the positive effect they would have on our environment. And that effect is maximized if more and bigger companies get involved.
Reply
Kardax 12:01PM (10/15/2007)
I don't agree with anyone that says that Big Auto's reputation will hurt them. The general public has a very short term memory... if there's a sudden surge in gas prices, they'll buy EVs en mass from any local dealer selling them. Like Tony Belding said, the ones _not_ selling them will suffer the most.
Reply
greg woulf 2:24PM (10/15/2007)
I think it definitely herals bad times for start ups. Blame Tesla for publicizing the issue if this isn't what you wanted.
For me I'm glad that Tesla ignited the big car companies push toward EV's. I think Eberhard and the others deserve some kind of award for making a car that was so good that it couldn't be ignored.
Tesla, and the other companies can't compete for cost, and the other companies are foolishly trying to. Tesla at least is smart enough to focus on the niche market to start.
I won't buy a $30,000 Tesla sedan out of loyalty over a $30,000 Chevy Volt that's a clearly better car for me. I don't hate GM for business decisions made in the past.
Reply
Tony Belding 2:35PM (10/15/2007)
I don't understand this comment: "He [Eberhard] knew the risks getting in, as GM beat him to the market. . ." How's that? The Chevy Volt is still in an early stage of development. GM doesn't have anything else that I know about.
Reply
why not the LS2/LS7? 2:41PM (10/15/2007)
Tony Belding:
The GM EV1 beat the Tesla to the EV market by many years. GM even advertised it as being faster than a sports car (Miata in this case, a fair distance from the performance of the Tesla, but then again all cars had lower performance then).
Knowing this, there's no way one could convince oneself that GM is incapable of doing what Tesla is doing, because they already did it.
Reply
Alex Campbell 5:24PM (10/15/2007)
Did GM or Tesla win the race? Have I missed something here? The ZAP XEBRA is on the market right now, so I guess we are in a class by ourself. Good.
Reply
Chris M 6:27PM (10/15/2007)
Some of the e-car startups are more about good intentions and "saving the planet" than sound business practices. Some are under-capitalized, and many will fold, perhaps even before delivering their product. There will be several mergers, acquisitions and bankruptcies in the coming decade, and the survivors will be the ones with a good product and sound business practices.
Reply
BlackbirdHighway 1:56PM (10/16/2007)
The EV1 from GM doesn't count, they never sold a single one, and they crushed virtually all of them. That doesn't sound to me like beating anyone to market.
I believe it was Mr. Eberhard who pointed out that selling 10,000 cars a year is a huge success to Tesla, while to GM that would be a miserable failure. So for quite a long time, there will be a place in the market for the small companies, who have a different definition of a winner.
Also, I beleive it was Chelsea Sexton who pointed out that the it is difficult for a big company like to GM or Ford to market the virtues of EVs like being clean, economical to operate (if not to buy), and environmentally friendly, since they wind up highlighting the fact that their existing cars are none of those.
Reply
chauncey 10:29AM (10/17/2007)
To know the future, you must understand the past. The major manufacturers will NEVER build EV's in any large volumes, they disrupt too much of their revenue model. Most of them are barely talking about hybrids, the ones that are are using the technology to build faster cars, not more efficient ones, and GM says there's still isn't even a battery that will work! The all-electric startups have nothing to worry about, they will do very well over the next 10 years as long as they can fend off the political, PR, and marketing wars that the majors will volley at them. The threat isn't product, it's politics.
Reply
AJ 1:16PM (10/19/2007)
Video from Youtube of Xebra's being shipped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ20vYTgxEk
Reply