2008 Toyota Highlander hybrid less safe than 2007 model
I don't mean to pile on the bad news that seems to be hitting Toyota recently but I was doing some work on AutoblogGreen's second annual pick for safest hybrids and things don't look good for Toyota. Our pick for safest hybrid in 2007 was, for passenger cars, the Toyota Camry and, for SUVs, the Toyota Highlander. In 2008, it looks like the safest hybrids for the passenger and SUV classes will be from GM, not Toyota.
It's not even a close call in the SUV class. The 2008 GMC Yukon hybrid and 2008 Chevy Tahoe hybrid both got 5 stars. The 2007 Toyota Highlander hybrid got 5 stars too BUT... the 2008 Toyota Highlander hybrid got all 5s except for a 4-star rating for passenger safety. That's right, the 2007 Highlander Hybrid is actually SAFER than the 2008 version. We simply can't reward Toyota for dropping the ball there. These awards are all about highlighting screw ups like that and encouraging innovation.
As for the passenger class, the number are not quite in yet but it looks like the 2008 Toyota Camry hybrid might lose out to 2008 Saturn Aura hybrid. The Aura is a mild (some think that's too kind) hybrid and only improves the fuel efficiency by 2 miles per gallon but we think we might give it an extra point for finishing with crash test results equal or better than the Camry. I also think the lack of ESC as standard in the 2008 Prius should lose Toyota points.
The criteria for this award is very simple, the cars must be a hybrid and have ESC. After that, it's simply which car has the best crash rating in the passenger and SUV class. This award is really shaped by our readers who changed it from just a simple ranking to a much better award. Our brilliant readers even corrected the government's car safety website in the process of creating the award. So, we ask our readers again for their comments. Should AutoblogGreen's 2008 award for safest hybrid go to GM because Toyota has dropped the ball on safety?
Update: I changed the text "the lack of ESC in the 2008 Prius" to say "the lack of ESC as standard in the 2008 Prius."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
john1701a 9:46PM (10/19/2007)
"I also think the lack of ESC in the 2008 Prius should lose Toyota points."
What? ESC has been been available as an option for Prius since 2003, and it still is for the 2008.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 9:50PM (10/19/2007)
John, The page says the testing vehicle lacked ESC but I would not be surprised if it's a possible mistake at the website.
Reply
John Kurmann 6:31AM (10/20/2007)
Lascelles:
Are you biased against Toyota or are you just trying to be provocative, knowing that Toyota is the automaker to take potshots at these days? The Toyota Camry Hybrid (TCH) has the exact same NHTSA NCAP scores as the Saturn Aura (so-little-electric-motor-assist-it-doesn't-really-deserve-to-be-called-a) Hybrid (SAH), yet you write that "it looks like the 2008 Toyota Camry hybrid might lose out to 2008 Saturn Aura hybrid." How in heck did you come to that conclusion? Not only do they have equal crash test scores, the CAH beats the SAH in several ways:
1. It has a 7 MPG higher combined city/highway EPA MPG rating.
2. It produces significantly lower smog-forming air pollutant emissions, achieving a 9.5 rating for CAHs sold in California and certain other Western and Northeastern states that have more stringent regulations and an 8 rating for CAHs sold in the rest of the country; the SAH only achieves a 6 rating natinwide.
3. It's likely to be more reliable, too, based on the latest Consumer Reports (CR) reliability ratings. While the SAH is either too new or too rare for CR to report reliability info about it yet, the TCH scores higher than both the Saturn Aura XE (which has "above average" reliability in CR's survey) and XR (which has "below average" reliability in CR's survey). It seems unlikely to me the SAH will be more reliable than the XE.
John1701a is also right that electronic stability control is available as an option on the 2008 Prius; 5 out of the 6 option packages include it.
You do have a point about the slight decline in the crash test rating on the redesigned 2008 Highlander Hybrid compared to the previous generation.
Reply
why not the LS2/LS7? 2:11AM (10/20/2007)
Toyota makes a "dirtier" Camry Hybrid in non-CARB states? Shame on them.
The light hybrid Saturns (Vue and Aura) are not good on trace emissions. The V6 Aura does better! GM is clearly letting this slide right now, since the engine is a goner next year.
How come when people talk about GM cars, they say they aren't hybrid enough but when GM makes the 1-series guzzler, people are quick to point out it has hybrid features (similar to the GM mild hybrids)?
Reply
Lascelles Linton 9:16AM (10/20/2007)
John, Toyota won both classes last year so I think I might have been a little biased against GM. When I noticed GM really took the lead on SUVs, I might have been a little biased in making Aura win. There are not just star ratings but actual number and all of those are not in yet. I tried to compare a few other things but nothing that would be final. That could have been clearer. I added an extra point for Aura for premiering with such a good score so it really did not matter. Again, Prius might have ESC but the site says it does not so we might have another correction on our hands. I think Highlander losing a star is really the headline. Made me wonder if that happens more often. Yes, some say Aura is not really a hybrid but I did exclude the Lexus which is a hybrid just expensive but I think Aura deserves a space. Reliability is not a consideration. I want to keep the criteria are simple as possible so everyone can check it and contribute.
Reply
Joseph 1:15PM (10/20/2007)
The 2008 Prius still has ESC as an option. Look at the bottom of the page you linked.
Reply
AMcA 6:22PM (10/20/2007)
Go ahead. Pile on. Toyota's been getting too much of a free ride for WAY too long.
Reply
John Kurmann 11:44AM (10/21/2007)
Lascelles:
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration apparently tested a base model Prius or one equipped with an option package that didn't include electronic stability control even though ESC is available. The NHTSA apparently doesn't have a policy that ensures they test the vehicle with every available safety feature.
Does the Aura Greenline deserves to be called a hybrid? It seems to me the real test of a hybrid is how much the electric motor and battery pack contribute to powering the car, and the Aura's don't do much. This is demonstrated by the fact that the Aura Hybrid only achieves a 5 MPG higher combined EPA rating than the most efficient conventional Aura even though it has a much smaller internal combustion engine.
And, while you're right that its reliability (or lack thereof) isn't relevant to whether or not the Aura Greenline is a true hybrid, its smog-forming pollutant rating is--and, as I pointed out, it scores only a 6 out of 10 nationwide while the Camry Hybrid scores an 8 in the version sold in most of the country and a 9.5 in the version sold in California and certain Western and Northeastern states with more stringent air pollution regulations. Hybrid technology is about more than reducing gasoline use.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 11:47AM (10/21/2007)
John Kurmann, It should not be an option. How many people even know what ESC means to ask for it to be added?
Reply
John Kurmann 9:37AM (10/22/2007)
Lascelles:
Whether Electronic Stability Control (ESC) "should" be standard or an option on the 2008 Prius is a matter of opinion, of course. ESC is a relatively new technology and it does increase the cost of a car, so it has only been standard on luxury cars until very recently. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has decided to require all cars sold in the U.S. to have ESC beginning with model year 2012, so new and redesigned models now often come with ESC as standard equipment. It's still hit-and-miss, though. While the Camry Hybrid has ESC standard, the other trim levels only offer it as an option. ESC is standard on the Aura Greenline and XR trim, but it's not on the XE.
It's also important to recognize that all models do not have an equal tendency to roll over, which is what ESC was primarily invented to prevent. Vehicles with a high center-of-gravity--especially trucks and truck-based SUVs--have a much higher likelihood of rolling over than do cars like the Prius. Even without ESC, the Prius had only a 13% rollover risk, good enough to warrant 4 stars in the NHTSA New Car Assessment Program test.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 9:44AM (10/22/2007)
John Kurmann, The whole point of the award is to explain things like ESC to people. Secondary goal is for the car makers to actually add them. I really only mention the lack of ESC as standard because that's the only real difference in the car. I said this in another article and should have said it again here; all of these cars are incredibly safe. Even the highlander which lost a single star in one rating is probably one of the safest SUVs you can buy.
Reply
Karkus 12:02PM (10/22/2007)
Re: Prius - Yet another factually incorrect post from Lascalles. What else is new?
Re: Saturn getting a higher score than the Camry.
Yet another speculation that is not supported. What else is new?
Reply
Lascelles Linton 12:04PM (10/22/2007)
Karkus, There is nothing incorrect in the post. ESC is optional and from what I know of hybrid testing, which I will report in another article very soon, it looks like the Aura is safer.
Reply
Karkus 12:42PM (10/22/2007)
"the lack of ESC in the 2008 Prius" is a factually incorrect statement. It is optional in the 2008 Prius. When you say "the 2008 Prius", that refers to ALL 2008 Prius cars in general.
If you had said "the lack of ESC in this particular 2008 Prius that they tested", that would have been correct.
If you had said "the lack of ESC as a standard feature in the 2008 Prius", that would have been correct.
Your statement above is NOT correct, no matter how hard you argue.
I do, however agree that the main point of the post is a good one. A decrease in safety rating of the 2008 Highlander is worth pointing out.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 12:52PM (10/22/2007)
Karkus, I can see how someone might not think when I say Prius I mean standard Prius so I will change it.
Reply
Cliff 1:45PM (10/22/2007)
Don't you think the IIHS scores are much more important than the Federal scores? Those tests are a lot more stringent.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 1:49PM (10/22/2007)
Cliff, IIHS is not as user friendly as safercar.gov. I don't even think they rated 2008 models yet or do ratings for each year. I only see ratings for cars over years.
Reply
John Kurmann 8:06PM (10/22/2007)
Lascelles:
I'm pretty sure you're mistaken in thinking that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's New Car Assessment Program tests each for every model year. Here's what they say about their testing:
"How does NHTSA choose vehicles to rate? Why isn’t my vehicle being rated?
"Every year the agency chooses those new vehicles which are predicted to have high sales volume, those which have been redesigned with structural changes, or those with improved safety equipment. This allows us to provide star rating results that best represent what is actually being purchased in the marketplace. These vehicles are purchased from dealerships from across the country, just as you the consumer would. The vehicles are not supplied directly to NHTSA by the manufacturer – a common misperception."
In other words, it's unlikely they tested a 2008 model year Prius. Instead, they've carried over the rating from the last time they tested the Prius, which appears to have been the 2007 model year after side and side curtain airbags were made standard. They would retest it if Toyota made ESC standard, which I'd encourage Toyota to do.
The crash tests done by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS.org) are generally thought to be a better predictor of real-world crash safety than the NHTSA NCAP tests. The IIHS does take longer to publish results for new and redesigned cars, though. For example, though they've published results for the current generation Camry (thought not the hybrid specifically), they haven't published results for the Aura.
Reply
Lascelles Linton 8:07PM (10/22/2007)
John, I don't want to make the award too complicated because I really want the average person to be able to do this on their own but I will take another look at the list and see how they might rate hybrids.
Reply
cubananbob 1:11AM (10/23/2007)
I believe you should compare an apple to am apple.
Every car ought to be tested as the base model with no extra options and tested with all safety options. It would give consumers an easier frame of reference when comparing the various different makes and models.
Reply