Toyota doesn't think China is ready for electric cars
Do hybrids and pure electric cars help reduce CO2 emissions? Not in China, according to Tatehito Ueda, a managing officer at Toyota Motor Corp, in this article from Reuters. The problem, as you might expect, is how China produces its electricity (mostly from coal). Ueda told Reuters, "In France, 80 percent of electricity is produced by nuclear stations so if electric cars replace fossil fuel cars then you have a clear reduction in the emission of CO2. But in China they make electricity by burning coal, so China is not the place for electric cars."
Ueda is exactly right when he criticizes powering cars from coal, but I'm not sure about the hybrid charge. And, while I don't have the information in front of me right now, I heard at some point over the weekend (at the Santa Monica Alt Car Expo) that using coal instead of petrol is, on the whole, cleaner. I'm willing to be proven wrong on this point, as it was just something I think I remember hearing.
Anyway, back in China, Ueda says that the simple fixes, like reduced running resistance tires, will be the way Toyota cuts emissions in its Chinese cars.
[Source: Reuters]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Kardax 11:51AM (10/23/2007)
A coal-powered electric car has less than half the emissions of a gasoline-powered one, but it's almost impossible to convince people of this when they see a coal plant belching out smoke.
This is going to be a marketing challenge for EVs for the foreseeable future in much of the world. Of course, the coal supply won't last forever, so it's really just a matter of time...
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why not the LS2/LS7? 11:57AM (10/23/2007)
I think the supply of gas is more reliable than the supply of electricity too.
I think another problem is that people who live in urban areas live in tower blocks in China. They aren't in single-family homes where you can run power to your parking spot easily.
China should start building their tower blocks with facilities to charge electric cars in their parking spots. Of course, these new tower blocks will all be the farthest out from the city centers (the 'burbs so to speak) and tax the range of electric cars...
With the density of Chinese cities, they should really build better subways instead of electric cars.
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Michel S. 12:06PM (10/23/2007)
In virtually every country afflicted with traffic jams, hybrids pay back for themselves in the reduced amount of fuel burned while idling.
Is this Toyota showing its true face again? They don't sell the Prius in Indonesia either -- I've heard that some celebrities (and possibly others that keep more quiet) have resorted to importing the car themselves. I wonder how they get their spare parts..
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phil easler 12:17PM (10/23/2007)
Gosh, I didn't know Toyota was so smart. I sure hope they can convience the Chinese not to make electric vehicles and then export and compete with Toyota on a global market. Toyota, get real, you are looking over your shoulder instead of the future.
Phil
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BlackbirdHighway 12:16PM (10/23/2007)
With an electric car, I have options. For one, I can put solar panels on my roof that generate electricity. There are no solar panels that I can put on my roof that will generate gasoline.
There are no windmills that generate gasoline, no hydro-electric dams that generate gasoline, no nuclear plants that generate gasoline, no geo-thermal plants that generate gasoline, etc.
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tim mcleod 12:19PM (10/23/2007)
Sidestepping for the moment the clean/dirty side of coal vs. petrol, isn't the relative efficiency of the electric car motivating enough? I thought I heard somewhere that a petrol vehicle gets about 20-30% of inherent fuel energy converted into movement but that fossil fueled power plants capture about 40-45% of the available energy in the final product, electric power, because their centralization/economy of scale allows greater capture of (otherwise) wasted heat. Anyone have specifics on this part of the petrol/coal-fired discussion?
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Tony Belding 12:21PM (10/23/2007)
Does coal-fired electricity pollute more or less than gasoline?
It depends on how you define pollution. If you're talking about particles, haze and smog, sulfur, acid rain. . . then a modern gasoline or hybrid car would very likely pollute less. In that sense Tatehito Ueda is probably right.
The electric car will result in slightly less CO2 emitted. But you know, CO2 isn't technically a pollutant: it's a naturally occurring constituent of the atmosphere.
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TIMMAH! 12:43PM (10/23/2007)
Still easier controlling emissions at individual coal plants than at millions of tailpipes...
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RxTx 1:27PM (10/23/2007)
Please people just buy "Who killed the electric Car" DVD and watch the extra features - it tells you EXACTLY how much LESS an electric car pollutes. Only on sulpher is it higher - but this is being improved at the coal power stations and as we get greener (wind/solar) energy.
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OhmExcited 1:55PM (10/23/2007)
I've done the calculations for this:
http://ohmexcited.googlepages.com/CO2.htm
Electric vehicles powered by coal are not necessarily better than a conventional hybrid when it comes to ultimate CO2 emissions. It is probably worse, but better than a typical ICE vehicle.
People in China also don't typically live in single family homes with garages with electrical outlets.
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steven 2:22PM (10/23/2007)
This looks like Toyota's sour grapes routine again. In this case it is not the GM Volt's proposed/alleged battery technology, but by the budding Chinese electric car industry.
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GreyFlcn 7:00PM (10/23/2007)
Actually a coal powered Prius PHEV40 and a normal Prius run about dead even on total emissions.
http://greyfalcon.net/plugins3
And thats comparing a parallel PHEV.
A series PHEV would be much lighter, and perform even better.
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Tim 3:45PM (10/23/2007)
China lacks the mature electric power grid of many other fully industrialized nations. They have a lot of catching up to do in many areas, but they will use that momentum to leave the rest of the world in their dust.
In fact, China has become one of the world's largest creditor nations while the US has become the world's largest debtor. The future is quite bright for the Yen however it doesn't look good for the US $Dollar.
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why not the LS2/LS7? 6:06PM (10/23/2007)
Tim:
The Yen, what? The Yen has dropped 9% against the Euro in 22 months. The Yen is not "looking good".
Are you thinking of the Yuan/RMB? Surely you can't mean that either since it's largely pegged to the dollar and has dropped like a rock too (which the Chinese are pretty happy with).
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fouroffour 4:52AM (10/24/2007)
What the toyota guy does not tell you:
China is one of the biggest players in building up renewable enrgy systems. Their number of e.g. windmills built in the last 12 months exceeds those of all other high industrial countries, the same is true for PV-solar-plants.
Tendency - increasing.
With every new windmill ALL EV get cleaner!
Calculate a million of EV improving by 1% each year.
Compare this to the same number of ICE not improving and add up what happens the next 10 years.
Rgds - 4of4
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