Tesla VP opines on Wall Street Journal EV article, the future is Diversity!
You might expect the Marketing VP of the best-known electric vehicle company in recent times to be promoting pure battery electrics as the only answer to our transportation problems. However, Darryl Siry is much more realistic and pragmatic than that. While he sees a growing market for electric cars in the coming years, Darryl acknowledges that both gasoline and diesel internal combustion will be with us for some time to come. More importantly the argument of parallel vs series vs plug-in hybrids is pointless because all have their place. Different tools for different jobs. On the topic of whether the Chevy Volt architecture is a hybrid or electric vehicle, you might be surprised to learn that Darryl agrees with GM that the Volt is an electric vehicle. Check out the rest of Darryl's thoughts over at the Tesla Blog.[Source: Tesla Motors]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
scatter 8:46AM (10/25/2007)
I'm not sure I get him.
He seems to be saying that there is no technological difference between a series hybrid and a range extended EV, but the latter description is more easily understood by the consumer?
So it's simply a repackaging of a series hybrid for a wider audience. So it is PR spin.
I don't have a problem with GM calling the Volt a REEV (because it's the same thing as a series hybrid) but it seems like Siry's contradicting himself.
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Tim 9:57AM (10/25/2007)
OK, I’ll try AGAIN to clear it one more time. I know you can get this…
A series-electric (like a train) has a generator that must ALWAYS be producing electricity to driving the wheels. It may even have a little battery storage to recapture some breaking energy, but power from the generator is required for normal operations.
A Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) ALWAYS gets the electricity from a battery whether that power is generated onboard via a back up generator, a fuel cell or imported via the grid is irrelevant. As long as the batteries are ALWAYS powering the motor(s) it’s a. E-Flex is a BEV-40 with a back up generator which ONLY recharges the battery and NEVER directly powers the wheels.
A hybrid car (like the Prius) USES more than one source of power to DIRECTLY drive the wheels depending on demands. ICE + Battery during acceleration = Hybrid. ICE + Battery during high speed cruise = Hybrid, ICE + hydraulic or pneumatic = Hybrid. ANY combination of the above to directly power the wheels at ANY time is a HYBRID. Personally, I don’t consider stop-start or cylinder deactivation schemes to be hybrids because they don’t meet this definition although they are both very good ideas.
A Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle is a hybrid as defined above with larger batteries so more of the motive power can come from off board sources, but it still meets the definition of a hybrid because more than ONE source of power DIRECTLY is required during normal operations.
The Prius is NOT an electric car and E-Flex is NOT a hybrid.
As is often the case, the experts including Tesla and GM are right and the armchair blogging geniuses are wrong. Are all types useful? Well, there is more than one tool in the box for a reason. It would be foolish to expect to be forced to drive a screw with a wrench. The real key here is that you don’t NEED a hammer to drive a thumbtack. Don’t be wasteful. Buy and use only what you NEED, not what you think makes your ego or little soldier feel bigger.
I hope this is helpful.
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scatter 10:20AM (10/25/2007)
Wow Tim, that was unnecessarily agressive and patronising. Well done! You've excelled yourself.
I hadn't appreciated that the series hybrid required the generator to be on all the time, it wasn't mentioned in the Tesla blog post and in fact I've never seen it mentioned anywhere, hence my confusion. I'd like to say thanks for clearing it up but...
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GoodCheer 10:49AM (10/25/2007)
Tim: So the Volt is a BEV. When the generator is running it produces electricity, which charges the battery. When the drive train is running it consumes electricity which discharges the battery.
But if the supply from the generator and the demand from the drive train are (even for an instant) identical, then (for that instant) the battery is neither charging nor discharging. For that instant the Volt suddenly becomes a series hybrid. Isn't that odd?
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Tony Belding 11:49AM (10/25/2007)
Tim: I fully understand your argument. It makes sense to me. I get it.
I just don't agree with it.
What we've got shaping up is a recipe for mass confusion of the public. We've already got hybrid cars that can't be plugged in, even though portions of the public still haven't got the message and think they *must* be plugged in. When you start trying to explain "plug-in parallel hybrid" and "range extended electric car", it's going to be hopeless.
Ultimately, displacing gasoline with grid power is what it's all about. This is what your non-technical person is going to care about: Do I have to plug it in? Can I plug it in? Do I have to put gas in it? Can I put gas in it?
They don't care what internal component is or is not connected to the drive shaft.
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Tim 12:11PM (10/25/2007)
It's not always necessary to understand how a thing works to appreciate it. Take the human body or the IRS tax code for instance. Potatoes, Potatos
Anyway, all the buyers really need to know is that the E-flex vehicle will NEVER need gasoline during a daily commute of 40 miles or less. That they can make their own electricity on the roof of their home. That there is no transmission and the linear power curve will make for a fantastic driving experience. That the range-extending generator weather it be fuel cell, diesel or flex-fuel will give then a total range of well over 600 miles for those special occasions, require far less maintenance, and that they will save $ Thousands every year in their fuel costs.
What % of drivers REALLY now EXACTLY how their car works yet they drive one anyway? All I’m saying is that GM’s designed it and that gives them the right to name it. Tesla agrees. The inventor gets to name their invention.
By the way, I apologize if my previous post sounded “unnecessarily aggressive and patronizing” as my only intention was to be helpful. Perhaps I was a little grumpy.
Cheers!
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scappy 1:15PM (10/25/2007)
The only question you really have to answer is what makes the axle / drive shaft rotate. If it is an electric motor it is an electric vehicle. If it is some type of ICE it is "just a car". If it is both it is a hybrid. If it is pneumatics it is a pneumatic vehicle. Hydraulics, hydraulic vehicle. Steam engine, steam vehicle.
In fact a steam engine is a great example. A heat source is used to boil water which drives the engine. The designation of the steam engine does not dictate what the heat source is. The is no nomenclature distinction between a steam engine powered by coal or a steam engine powered by oil. They are both steam engines.
If anyone wants to play the game of saying the electricity is generated by an engine there fore it is a hybrid. Then my Ranger is the most environmentally friendly car there is because it burns gas which comes from the ground which came from decompossing plant and animal matter with the addition of heat and pressure from the earth. So my truck uses an all natural organic fuel source.
Long in the short of things the line must be drawn somewhere.
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Tim 3:15PM (10/25/2007)
scrappy - Fantastic analogy. You get it.
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Chris M 5:51PM (10/25/2007)
Scappy, if we followed your logic we would be forced to conclude that there is no such thing as a "series hybrid". After all, on a diesel/electric locomotive, only the electric motors drive the wheels, therefore they are electric trains, not "diesel/electric series hybrid" trains.
Problem is, we've now confused one type of electric train (powered by an onboard diesel generator) with another type of electric train (powered via an overhead wire from a stationary generator).
Sorry, but I'm not going to use that logic. I say, it is what is onboard the vehicle that counts.
The analogy to heat sources for steam engines is interesting. If a different "non-steam heat" source of power was added, (compressed air, maybe?) then it would become a "steam hybrid". Battery electric cars are still considered "battery electrics" regardless of the type of battery used - lead acid, NiMH, LiIon, etc. If a non-battery 2nd source of power is added (IC engine, fuel cell, gas turbine, etc.) then it is considered a "hybrid"
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rar 9:33AM (10/26/2007)
Who cares what you call it. If the Volt can do what they say, build it, and I will by one!
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