If one is talking electric/petrol hybrids then I would probably agree. These hybrids may prove as practical as hydrogen in the end....CNG/petrol hybrids, under the "Natural Power" range, I guess are present on FIAT models more than any other make. I don't see, however, why they shouldn't extend the Natural Power range to all models.

Since the Alfa 156 and the unijet engine, and now with the multijet (used now by Fiat, Opel, Saab, Tata, Suzuki, etc etc), Fiat have been improving the performance of these engines. If there is still margin for improving this technology then I'd agree this is the more sensible way ahead. Especially if FIAT could reduce the engine sizes across their entire range. The FIAT 500 pictured has 111g CO2/km for the POP model, which costs 12500 euros. Improving further on this I'd say makes sense.

In terms of car weight the choice seems to be lighter steels. I think FIAT here could be more aggressive.

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Perhaps not hybrids, but electric vehicles need to be addressed more seriously. A couple of utilities have recently come out with electric versions.
These vehicles are the ones developed in partnership with Peugeot-Citroen.
Why don't these carmakers get together (perhaps also with Renault and Toyota who are also making really efficient cars) and make a serious electric car JV based on the BATSCAP batteries ??

http://www.batscap.com/en/default.html

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My next car will have a plug, either electric or hybrid.
So, it won't be a Fiat?

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mine will run on CNG....

for a hybrid the Prius (or a Prius iteration) is probably the safest bet....

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The Fiat brand has always been about "value". Hybrids are simply too expensive to make the cut. However, I think it may be unwise of Marchionne to completely rule out this technology for the other Fiat S.p.A. brands.

Lancia in particular could really use a technology differentiator to give its upcoming models (e.g. Aprilia Cabrio) an edge. Why not develop a turbocharged engine that runs on directly injected ANG and features a microhybrid system (cp. BMW Efficient Dynamics)?

Alfa Romeo might also discover that a hybrid option of some description will make the brand that much more attractive to California buyers when the brand is relaunched in the US. Of course, it first has to prove its claim that the build quality of the regular electrics is finally up to snuff. A second priority should be weight reduction, the 159/Brera/Spyder family is much heavier than its German rivals and that is evident in acceleration, cornering and fuel economy.

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ANG could indeed prove very interesting.

With hybrids in general there is always an obvious compromise. In the past, limited CNG distribution has made combined CNG/petrol a necessity. I would be more in favor of pure electric and pure CNG, while improving the mutlijet even further. An example which is already on the streets is the Fiat engine inside the SAAB Aero 1.9 TTiD 180hp. I would very much like to see a tiny version of this engine used on the smaller cars.

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I think all products, including luxury cars, are about "value". This is why, if I were forced to buy a luxury car, I would probably choose a Toyota or a Lexus, but never a German car. Simply because they have the lowest "value". Recall that the technology used in the smaller car segments is most often the same used in the larger cars (same technology but of different capacity, e.g. larger TDIs)

I have to disagree with the build quality issue. The type of flaws seen on the Mercedes Class A when it was launched have never been seen on any Italian or French car. Furthermore the type of warranties that can be found for French and Italian cars in several European markets are unheard of for German cars.

In all performance figures, and dollar for dollar, the French and Italian cars outdo the Germans. Indeed it is ridiculous how often this happens, even when the French or Italian car cost significantly less.

For example:

AUDI A3 2.0 TDI
149 g/km CO2
average fuel consumption 5,7 l/100 km
140 bhp
30000 euros (you must be kidding)
EURONCAP 4 stars (score of 29)

CITROEN C4 2.0 HDi
142 g/km CO2
average fuel consumption 5,4 l/100 km
136 bhp
24300 euros
EURONCAP 5 stars (score of 35)

FIAT BRAVO 1.9 MULTIJET:
149 g/km CO2
average fuel consumption 5,6 l/100 km
150 bhp
22300 euros
EURONCAP 5 stars (score of 33)

A car like the Alfa 147 has better cornering performance than the A3, as well as the same consumption despite have 10hp more from a 1.9l engine. If it also costs almost 8000 euros less, I find this quite ridiculous.

There is something I would really like to understand. The German car I like the most, the Mini, I found out has a Peugeot engine which gives it its performance. Fiat have sold 2.2billion worth of truck engines to Daimler. Opel uses the Fiat multijet engine (as do Saab, Tata, Suzuki). I fail to understand why nobody buys German technology.

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@Karl Uwe Strunz

What you write is complet BULLSHIT

The true car prices in Germany 2007

Audi A3 2.0 TDI 24,350Euro
VW Golf 2.0 TDI 22,750Euro
Opel Astra 1.9CDTi (150hp) 23,180Euro
Ford Focus 2.0TCDi 24,575Euro


Your EuroNCAP crash compare
The Audi is by far the oldest design in your compare. It is 4 years older as the EuroNCAP test of the Fiat Bravo!

Next BULLSHIT are your talking about quality...
Look at JD power quality studys from car markets outside "Toyota Lexus brain washed US consumers"

JD power South Africa..
top 10 brands 2007 mostly German
1. BMW 3. Mercedes Audi on same level as Lexus..Toyota not in the top10

JD power Asia south pacific
1th (3year in a row) Audi with scorring a JD power record..the best result of a manufactor ever!
2th Buick
3th VW

That on a market that will become the largest car market in the world in the next 3 years.. which is already as big as North American car market (USA + Canada)

6 of 10 cars sold in Japan over $40,000 are German cars. Because Japanese and the rest of the world like overpriced german trash... *sarcasm*

BTW the Golf has better EuroNCAP ratings as the Bravo and that 3 years older..

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and befor you jump on me...

I own a FIAT and a Audi and a Renault and a VW!

The different between a Fiat and a VW or a Audi are light years. You get what you pay for.

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I cannot help but wonder why 7 out of nine posts are from the same person... Giving false information and ranting about irrelevant stuff is quite useless. As for german technology, the Pagani Zonda uses a V12 Mercedes engine, the Azcari uses the old BMW M5 V8 engine, which more than 10 years after its launch is still considered one of the best, most high-tech engines in the world today (mostly by bmw fans). The upcoming Artega GT will be using a 3.6 VR6 from VW. All the joint ventures between VM, Fiat and GM (which controls SAAB and has shares in Suzuki) are just for saving development costs, as is the PSA-Ford diesel joint-venture. It doesnt mean that PSA manufactures the engines and sells them one by one to ford, they are simply jointly developed and produced.

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Oh my! ts ts ts!
as it turns out, I own 3 Golfs, 4 Renaults and 2 Toyotas! Surely though I was referring to the car specs and not how many cars I own?

No ranting here. Pagani and Zonda? JD power? Is this a new soft drink? what the heck are those? I have to admit I've never seen one of these.
I have seen, on the contrary, numerous Minis, Opels, Daimler trucks, SAABs, Suzukis, etc.
I don't know what these things are, but if they're racing cars...... well, then the $100M record Mercedes fine for stealing and using the Ferrari F1 comes to mind....

I've simply quoted the car specs from car magazines. I repeat what I said about an A3 having a EURONCAP score of 29 (4 stars) and the price for this model (in order not to compare apples with oranges), besides all the other wonderful specs:
http://www.euroncap.com/small_family_car.aspx
when the European Car of The Year, the much smaller Fiat 500, scores 35 (5 stars). There can be no justification for this.
The Golf and Bravo have the same score of 33 according to Euroncap, but the Bravo costs a lot less.
Besides the ECOTY, the Fiat Linea yesterday won the Autobest 2008 award. This award comes from 15 European countries and car magazines, representing over 300 million inhabitants. What's more Germany is the country which has won the ECOTY the least.

I have never heard of JD while things like ECOTY or Autobest have been very big and a big tradition over many years. In Europe, those cars which win the ECOTY bear the award as a sticker the following year. I won't even try going into a niche market like the Japanese over-40000$ import market (???)

Marketing plays a big role in the car business. If this is included in the equation, then I surely agree that you get what you pay for.
Otherwise, please visit www.acea.be
Here you will see that, for example, Smart sales have plummeted 33% in Europe from 2005 to 2007. For 2007, German carmakers are either negative or have stagnated. So I disagree that the rest of the world want these so badly.

Indeed, if this were so, the German carmakers would not have blocked the EU directive on CO2 emissions. CO2 is linked to fuel consumption performance and today is one of the main performance parameters.

The PSA engines are indeed French technology which has been sold to BMW. Development costs are only part of the equation. Everyone today, with few exceptions, is using common rail engines. The issue is related to both technology and costs, of course. For example, here are the SAAB aero 1.9 TTiD specs:
http://www.saab.com/main/GLOBAL/en/dyc/93_S/step2.shtml

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