"Hummers are greener than Prius" study makes it into an episode of ABC's Boston Legal
Boston Legal is an ABC TV series about a law firm. In the episode Green Christmas (first aired Dec. 18, 2007), the law firm, Crane Poole and Schmidt, is sued by a group called "Green People" for fraud because they said they were green but actually were not. In the court case, a board member of Green People is asked which car he drives? He says a hybrid, to which the Boston Legal firm's lawyer Katie responds saying a Hummer is greener because of the way batteries are made. On top of that, she says hybrids reduce the cost of driving which encourages more driving and in the end more pollution. You can watch the video above. Here's exactly what Katie says:
Hybrid batteries contain nickel that is mined and smelted in a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. A plant that has caused so much environmental damage and acid rain that NASA uses the so-called dead zone around the plant to test its moon rovers. ... That nickel then has to be shipped via massive containers to a refinery in Europe. Then off to China to be made into nickel foam, then to Japan to be manufactured, then finally all the way back to America. All that, just to put a single hybrid battery into a car. When you combine all the energy it takes to built and drive a hybrid it adds up to almost fifty percent more that it does to build and drive a Hummer.
A few comments to my posts on the hybrid in the Knight Rider TV movie, said things like like "spare me." Yes, the Knight Rider TV movie is a remake of a cheesy '80s TV show, but it might inspire Ford to make a hybrid Mustang. Boston Legal's 10 million viewers probably believed the statements about hybrid batteries. My point is: Culture matters. It's probably more important than things like politics, technology, brand or anything. It really does not matter that the hybrid Hummer/Prius study has been discredited (many, many times) or that this argument is just stupid for the simple reason that batteries are recycled by law. If it's repeated on shows like Boston Legal, it's "fact."
Related:
[Source: ABC]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Trev 8:27PM (1/29/2008)
Well that's typical. Why would they even do that? Don't they fact-check? What have they got against hybrids?
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shmooopy 9:05PM (1/29/2008)
Granted this study seems like rubbish but in terms of Li-Ion batteries - is there a heavy environment cost for them? Is their production very energy intensive? It just seems like when something is so expensive it is taking some kind of input, energy, materials, mining? What was spent to make the ~$30K of batteries in a tesla?
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TG 12:05AM (1/30/2008)
Shmoopy,
Good questions. **in terms of Li-Ion batteries - is there a heavy environment cost for them? Is their production very energy intensive?**
============
When challenged about lithium toxics, I usually reply, ** No worries there, just take a lithium pill and relax.**
The battery of today is Lead / acid and fully recycled, so the question seems without merit, unless toxics occur in lithium production.
========================================
The following is a Tip.
I found it very promising and good news.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OmOW0z__AMI
Eat yer heart out Brazil. = TG
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kballs 1:01AM (1/30/2008)
Cost to manufacture != cost to buy != energy input.
Materials costs are market driven, not directly dependent on energy use. If cost was equal to energy input then that AMG Mercedes would use 10x the amount of energy to produce than a Toyota Camry when it is almost the same.
Also, the amount of energy gobbled up by a Hummer in its lifetime dwarfs the amount of energy used to build a hybrid.
Everyone freaks out about nickel in a hybrid battery, but then most people have enough nickel in their kitchen for 5 sets of hybrid batteries (stainless appliances, stainless flatware, stainless knives, stainless faucets, stainless sinks, stainless countertops, stainless backsplashes, stainless bowls, stainless pots - stainless steel = carbon steel + nickel).
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Chris M 3:22AM (1/30/2008)
It is a good example of the underhanded and sometimes dishonest tactics used by lawyers. The best defense would be knowing the subject, thus knowing when they are fudging the truth.
In this case, if the plaintiffs (Green People) had known about that bogus "Hummer is greener" study and the rebuttals to it, they could have countered it easily. But someone so shallow as to file such a frivolous lawsuit is probably clueless and unprepared.
Good thing the show is fiction!
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scatter 4:47AM (1/30/2008)
Good thing the show is fiction indeed but bad science doesn't need to be spread to millions (?) of people via a primetime (?) TV show.
It's extremely lazy script writing. They blatently just did a bit of googling and came across the lame dust to dust report which continues to wreak its damage.
The funny thing is how that NASA "fact" (which is actually a myth) pops up only in reference to hybrid batteries. NASA used the area for geology training during the Apollo era and nickel has been mined there since the 19th Century.
That's not to say that mining isn't damaging to the environment, it's just kind of difficult to pin much of the area's environmental degredation on hybrids!
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BlackbirdHighway 5:49AM (1/30/2008)
Hummers are to blame for the Exxon Valdez disaster! Well, not really.
Nickel was mined long before hybrid cars even existed, so if hybrid cars get blamed for that, then Hummers should get the blame for something that happened long before they existed too. It's only fair.
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Lascelles Linton 6:59AM (1/30/2008)
Scatter, Yes, it's a prime time show and yes, millions of viewers. It's a top ABC show.
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JM 7:40AM (1/30/2008)
For all those H2 owners:
Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would like to thank you for helping make their oil-producing country very profitable and rich. You can be sure that more exciting things are about to come in the future.
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cowboy bob 7:40AM (1/30/2008)
The simple fact is that everyone has an ax to grind. I don't know who to believe, and think everybody on both sides is a lying SOB. Both sides take "facts" and skew them to fit their argument. I don't believe any of the B.S. from both sides. E-85, Biodiesel, Ethanol, and Hybrid supporters along with all the Exon/Shell/BP 'ers are all a bunch of decietful carperbaggers. Shoot all the lying bastards.
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Tim 8:44AM (1/30/2008)
Unintended consequences also known as policy blow-back. Now put this in terms of our occupation of the Middle East.
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ty 8:45AM (1/30/2008)
cowboy bob; While it might be temping to "shoot 'em all and let god sort 'em out", it's probaly not practical. When trying to choose between who is a liar, and who is a damn liar, just look at the money. Follow the $ trail and it usually leads you to the truth. In this country it usually ends with someone elses hand in YOUR pocket.
For the record; At this point in time I beleive diesel-electric hybrids hold the most promise in the near to mid-term. Add some solar collecting paint, and a removable small wind generator and you got your green transport. check this out- http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/windcart.html
Imagine a smaller charger, about the size of a 10 in house fan. It would easily plug in and out of a socket on the car roof. Like a boat light. As for the show. It's about lawyers.
Lawyer = professional liar
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The Other Bob 8:57AM (1/30/2008)
For all those hybrids drivers who commute an hour to work:
"Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would like to thank you for helping make their oil-producing country very profitable and rich. You can be sure that more exciting things are about to come in the future."
Time to quit blaming the type of car we drive and realize that it's the commute length more than the car that kills the environment. I only drive 6000 miles/year. How does my small truck carbon footprint compare to a Prius driver who drives 20,000?
I bet the "Hummers are better for the environment" theory is crap too, but lets be realistic here. All driving is bad for the environment.
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Mort 9:42AM (1/30/2008)
I agree with The Other Bob. If you don't drive very much it would be better for the environment (and your budget) if you kept your same car until it broke down. I drive less than 3000 miles per year, I plan to keep my truck until the wheels fall off.
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cowboy bob 9:45AM (1/30/2008)
Other Bob-- How fortunant you live so close to employment. For some, however, living close to their job is a luxury they cannot afford. Housing in some Metro areas is out of reach for a typical hourly worker. Driving to work where mass transit is non-existant is a means of survival. Typically, a 20 to 40 mile commute is normal for most people. Many have two or three times that. An econo-driver for work is the only answer when fuel costs you $300 a week in your SUV or pick-up. The difference in "green" is just so much crap to a guy just trying to feed his family. "It's the economy stupid" translates to "It's the price of oil stupid" where I come from.
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Anthony 10:00AM (1/30/2008)
as the creator of Eli Stone puts it, it's probably not meant to be presented as fact but to promote discussion (see case of the pilot episode's link between the flu vaccine, historical use of mercury preservatives[?] and the link with autism) - it's all fiction but based on real-world issues
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Chad 10:15AM (1/30/2008)
I'm with cowboy bob. Houses that are 5 or 10 miles from my job cost about $100,000 more than houses that are 20 miles from my job. I'll just drive those 40 miles a day in a cheap sub-compact and accept it is the best trade-off I can afford to make between my finances and my sense of environmentalism.
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MajorGeek 10:24AM (1/30/2008)
When we all wake up and realize that saving fuel is a good idea for the wallet and environment, we also need to look at many other things. Oversized homes, aerosol cans, food waste and more that many people use daily and have a negative impact. Things everyone can do every day to make a difference regardless of their vehicle. I like the lady down the road who drives a Prius, yet lives alone heating and air conditioning (northeast weather) a 3,500 square foot home. Wonder how much is wasted their as opposed to a 1,200 square foot home? I don't know whats "greenest" and really dont care, I will let the market sort it out.
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Arnie 10:29AM (1/30/2008)
This speech is copied directly from a well know article that has been published all over the place. Environmentalists hate that article.
"I like it!"
Denny Crane!
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Eric 10:39AM (1/30/2008)
A couple people have mentioned this already, but it's a tv show about LAWYERS. It should come as no surprise to see said LAWYERS manipulating facts to make their case.
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