GM Biofuels manager responds to Minnesota E20 study
Over on the GMnext blog, Coleman Jones has posted a response to the recent push to go from E10 to E20 at regular gas pumps in Minnesota. Jones is the Manger of Biofuels Implementation at GM Powertrain. While GM has obviously been a huge proponent of the expanded use of ethanol, they are reluctant to endorse this move toward E20. Their concern has to do with durability over the long term. Vehicles sold as E85 capable have already gone through all the durability testing necessary to ensure that the engines, including the fuel system and exhaust system, will survive the long-term use of E20 and higher concentrations of ethanol. Non flex-fuel engines haven't gone through this kind of rigorous testing and a one year test of 40 vehicles isn't considered sufficient. [Source: GMnext]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jimbo 5:03PM (3/11/2008)
Just make all vehicles E85 compatible. Whether it is the answer to our energy problems or not, it is nice to have the choice. We have E85 in almost every station in my town, but the choice of vehicles is limited to unappealing cars or gas-hog (E85-hog) trucks. The cost to engineer the engine mods would be spread across the whole market if they all were E85 compatible, making the price increase to the consumer negligible.
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Aimless 5:10PM (3/11/2008)
Car manufacturers are very reluctant to certify their older models.
But over here in continental Europe, fuel without a growing amount of alcohol is getting hard to find. We just want to know which parts of our older vehicle are at risk, and how to fix it.
It almost seams like the corporations and the evil politicians intend to drive us into buying new cars, by damaging our old ones.
/conspiracy off
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Mulad 5:32PM (3/11/2008)
I really think Minnesota should just split the difference and go for E15. My family's old 1984 Chevy Cavalier said in its manual that it could accept up to 15% ethanol. I don't know directly, but I imagine most GM vehicles made in the past 2-3 decades have been engineered similarly.
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jcwinnie 8:16PM (3/11/2008)
I read Coleman's response. It is thoughtful and well-stated.
OTOH, it does smack of Not Invented Here. As ABG commentator aimless pointed out, there are European studies that suggest E20 would be acceptable. And, ABG recently reported on the push for E23 in some places in Europe based upon 10 years of usage in Brazil.
The response also suggests a more granular assessment, for which vehicles in particular does Chrysler, Ford or General Motors have concerns?
So, I probably should clarify my initial comment. Coleman's post is thoughtful, when seen through a certain engineering lens. Looked at another way, it could be seen as more foot dragging by Detroit when we are running out of time that significantly reducing emissions will matter.
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MikeW 8:47PM (3/11/2008)
If the fuel is 20% ethanol, what will the anti-knock index be?
Will regular be 95RON, mid-grade be 98RON, and premium be 100RON
90,93,95 R+M/2
That could/would save people plenty of money.
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GenWaylaid 9:24PM (3/11/2008)
What would it take to retrofit older vehicles for higher ethanol? New fuel lines? Fuel tanks? Injectors? Sensors? Seals and gaskets? Changes to the engine computer? If you're trying just to get the car to tolerate E85 without retuning to make the best use of it, the parts might not be very expensive. Of course, the labor charges would be enormous.
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Scott 1:38AM (3/12/2008)
What Jimbo said!
I agree with the precept that GM should immediately certify all new vehicles (starting with the 2009 model year at minimum) for flex fuel. The slogan "half the fleet by 2012" just doesn't cut it. It costs less than $50 per vehicle to equip for flex fuel (when you consider they are simply replacing existing parts for ethanol compatible ones, the cost is zero).
This is within their reach now. It could have been done several years ago. The real reason that they are protracting the deployment of flex fuel vehicles is that they need to hold out the flex fuel rollout as a bargaining chip against CAFE. If they go all flex fuel now, they lost that.
It's unfortunate too, because if they would go 100% FFV, Ford and Chrysler would have to follow. That would be followed by Japan, Korea and Germany. We would then have a new international standard (flex fuel) to compete with the oil cartel's petro.
http://energyvictory.blogspot.com
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