Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis: Chicago Police should have SUVs
When newly-appointed Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis was given an open floor at a Chicago Crime Commission luncheon held in his honor, he suggested that he would like to see Chicago's aging fleet of Ford Crown Victoria police cars replaced with Chevrolet Tahoe's. He noted that the four-wheel-drive capabilities could prove helpful in Chicago's historically snowy winters and the extra storage space would also be welcome. While the emissions of these Tahoe's would likely be an improvement over the older Crown Vic, the fuel mileage is a wash at 11 miles per gallon. Yes, that's right -- their fuel mileage is not even in the teens.
Here's a perfect example of how Europe is thinking differently than the U.S. when it comes to what is really necessary for police work. Perhaps Chevy could at lease release a Police edition of their hybrid Tahoe?
[Source: The Chicago Tribune]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
MikeW 8:07PM (3/28/2008)
Tell them no
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-080326-crownvic-poll,0,172591.poll
Just get a bulk order of winter tires from TireRack.
The Tahoe doesn't have four wheel drive. There is no center differential in the NVG246 transfer case.
and why even consider something that doesn't have a six speed automatic (unless they are privy to inside information)
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MikeW 8:55PM (3/28/2008)
Damn government waste. 'We've tried nothing, and were all out of ideas'
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Latitude+Alpin+HP&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=355HR7LAHP
or just some better all seasons than RS-A
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+H4S&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=355HR7H4S
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+M550+A%2FS&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=355WR7M550
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1985 Gripen 10:09PM (3/28/2008)
Here's an alternative: V6 turbodiesel, made in USA, gets 40% better fuel economy than the Crown Vic:
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-03/pl_motor
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jake 12:44AM (3/29/2008)
@MikeW
Good point, I find a lot of people complaining about poor winter performance can have all of their problems solved with a good set of winter tires. Sure is a lot cheaper to than replacing a whole car too.
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Kevin 2:14AM (3/29/2008)
Personally i think that if they are going to replace the cars anyway then it might as well be a Tahoe hybird. Most people have very little faith in winter tires and the fact still remains that to change all four tires you woudl need to visit your local mechanic twice a year mandatory to switch from summer to winter tires . So as i said the hybird Tahoe is the best option . Along with being green they would also be supporting the company so that Chevrolet can research and better the next generation tahoes!
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jake 3:06AM (3/29/2008)
@Kevin
I would say go for it if the hybrid tahoes were cheap enough...but they cost $52k (cheapest 4wd tahoe is already $39k!) Since they have a whole fleet to service, I don't think changing a couple of tires twice a year is going to be much of a problem for them.
It makes sense to replace part of the fleet with Tahoes for the utility (most police departments already have some SUVs as a part of their fleet), but I don't think it makes much sense to replace the whole fleet when there are more fuel efficient, better performing, and cheaper alternatives like the impala starting at $23k (FWD is better for winter traction anyways) and the charger starting at $21k.
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Derek 10:38AM (3/29/2008)
MikeW: 4WD transfer cases do not have a center diff. The whole point of 4WD is to lock all four wheels to turn in unison. Most 4WD systems also lock the front axle when in 4WD which is why you should not engage 4WD for long periods unless on snow/ice/gravel/dirt.
You are thinking of All Wheel Drive.
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Derek 10:38AM (3/29/2008)
I'd love to see a Tahoe attempt to keep up on a high speed pursuit! LOL
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MikeW 12:20PM (3/29/2008)
No Derek, you have been misled by the machinations of the Big3 after the '70s oil embargo. [when they started to strip utility from their vehicles, in the name of improving CAFE]
'all wheel drive' is marketing term.
Four wheel drive means center differential, that definition is over 100 years old.
The NVG246 transfer case has: rear drive, automatically engaging off-road drive, off-road drive, neutral, low range off-road drive.
Say it with me. Off road drive (like what the Jeep Wrangler has) is not for use on pavement. That is why it is called off road drive.
I am not suggesting that a four wheel drive transfer case NOT have a locking center differential. Look at something like the HMMWV, Hummer H1, H2, H3, they all have a center differential. and they all can lock that center differential (which give them off road drive)
The point being, is that the hillbillies are being short changed, you are being given a subset of the functional capabilities of your vehicle.
I'd rather have that center differential be an open differential, rather than a torque sensitive differential, so that the drivetrain can accommodate really unevenly worn tires. [and the front/rear differential should be speed sensitive differentials, like the gerodisc & e-gerodisc]
So, the only way the CPD should consider the Tahoe is if it has an updated 5.3 V8 engine with VCT (variable camshaft timing) say 330hp, 350ft-lbs, the 6L80 6 speed automatic, and the BW 4484 transfer case from the Hummer H2 (40/60 planetary center differential, with lock)
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Mattias 2:35PM (3/29/2008)
In Bavarian mountain areas the police has many Volkswagen Transporter T5 with the typical I5 diesel and all wheel drive. They provide lots of space, good traction and are economical. And they are relatively easy to enter. These T5s still get 20 to 26mpg.
Some federal states and the fedaral police use old "Discos" (Land Rover Discoveries), but they are uncomfortable. Here in Connewitz the police has some armoured "Achleitner Survivor" based on Toyota Land Cruisers, but I gues that is a different story...
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Noah 4:43PM (3/30/2008)
Makes no sense. First, you don't need a tahoe to get 4wd traction and lots of room. My suggestion: Subaru Outback wagon. You can get a turbo-4 or the H6 to get plenty of power (more than a Crown Vic).
Second: Autobloggreen, why do you slam on the fuel economy of the Tahoe when the number you quoted is for E85? Would you prefer they use regular gas (worse emissions) getting 14mpg city?
Also, i like the idea of a company making a purpose built cruiser, but it would have to be a big player (toyota, ford, GM, Chrysler) to be able to service all these vehicles.
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MikeW 6:32PM (3/30/2008)
What is Chicago's elevation, 600 feet?
They don't need the turbo Outback, the boxing 6 would do just fine.
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BigRedSpecial 6:45AM (3/31/2008)
When are people going to realize that 4wd only helps you move, not turn, and especially not stop? "Why buy tires when you could buy a whole vehicle?"
Police cars here in Newfoundland (and I'm assuming the rest of Canada) use custom winter tires made by Goodyear; they have a really aggressive directional tread, yet are V rated. I don't hear of too many police accidents(not traction related anyway).
The RCMP also uses Explorers, but they are fairly rare since they don't have a chance in a pursuit situation.
I do agree with the Outback idea though, seems like a logical choice to me.
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TORR 8:34AM (3/31/2008)
Thank God I read this article so MikeW could enlighten us all on his knowledge of four wheel drive systems! When it snows, there is no direct connection to the pavement, therefore 4wd will help in many situations. But I guess if I would just look it up I would know so much more than real world experience.
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MikeW 9:58AM (3/31/2008)
Four wheel drive can help you stop, if you use the drivetrain to slow the vehicle. That is why it is important to have a manumatic interface to the transmission.
? perhaps
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?
tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+Ultra+Grip+GW3
'When it snows, there is no direct connection to the pavement'
Are you talking feet of snow here? Because when it snows, say less than 6", I can & have, looked at the tracks car/trucks leave. I can most certainly see the pavement, and I like to see what kind of tread pattern they are using to try and guess what tire they are using.
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psarhjinian 9:58AM (3/31/2008)
@Kevin,
Snow tires work better than four-wheel drive in almost every situation excepting initial get-go, and traction/stability control can go a long way to equalizing that.
My 9-3 (FWD), equipped with snow tires and traction control can--and has--done better in the snow then either my father's 4WD 4Runner or my neighbour's Outback. The reason? I popped for a good set of snow tires, while they're still using all-season. AWD/4WD can get you moving, but it doesn't help much with turning in low-traction and does squat for braking. If anything, it makes drivers cocky because they don't feel the initial slip on acceleration that serves as a warning that the roads are problematic.
Perhaps the CPD may want to try Blizzak-shod Impalas if they want to do something about snow traction and fuel economy? Never mind that forces in Europe use twerpy little front- (Saab 9-5), all- (Audi A4) and rear-drivers (3-Series) for the same duties that North American officers use a Vic for.
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Whopper 10:17AM (3/31/2008)
TORR, this article just saved me from having to purchase Off Road Magazine. But then, I live in Alabama and must be a hillbilly.
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psarhjinian 10:15AM (3/31/2008)
@MikeW
Yes, you have a point about compression braking, but it's equally possible that said effect can cause the wheels to break traction and skid as well. The issue I think that a lot of people have is that a decent snow tire will always do better than four- or all-wheel drive with all-seasons.
Both snows and four/all-wheel drive, accompanied by stability control is the best of all worlds.
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MikeW 6:02PM (3/31/2008)
With the modern electronics ('drag torque regulation'), the computer can determine if the throttle braking is causing the tires to skid (and with the open differential being standard, it is probable that one tire will highly slip, and one will rotate as normal). It really shouldn't be that much harder to determine if one front & one rear tire are skidding. (unless you put a torsen differential at all three locations, then it will probably be all or nothing)
[I have the Paul Frere article Road/Track Nov '96 about the E36 M3 SMG
'...For example, the message that the rear wheels are revolving slower than the front wheels is instantly recognized by the gearbox electronics and communicated to the engine's control unit, which immediately opens the throttle slightly, allowing the rear wheels to maintain their grip.']
I really like your point about the disconnect that drivers experience with four wheel drive & all seasons.
If anything, you need winter tires more so than front/rear drive because your drivetrain really aides in maintaining forward progress. So if everyone else is plodding along at 20mph, you can be doing 30mph, then you have a problem when you need to stop.
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