Who else thinks the Poulsen hybrid is the sleeper team to win the X Prize?
Following up on the post the other day about Popular Mechanics' attempt to rank the top ten Automotive X Prize teams, reader and tipster Manu wrote, "My bet for #1 is Poulsen Hybrid. It's not on the list and it's never been mentioned on ABG" (he also has his own take on the Poulsen Hybrid here). True enough, we have been remiss in covering this particular and we figured it was time to change that. I mean, what if this team happens to win and we weren't there from the beginning? Shameful. Of course, there are 60+ teams in the competition, and there are many we haven't covered. We should, but that's a post for another day.
Actually, we already missed the beginning. Poulsen hybrid plan started (I think, based on the website) last year, and the general idea is to take an existing ICE car and convert it to a plug-in electric hybrid with mileage in the 100 mpge range. The system adds two Poulsen Hybrid electric motors that use rare earth permanent magnets and are rated at 5kW or 7hp onto the outside of your car and then adds a 72V 120Ah Deep Cycle Lead Acid battery pack (with six batteries inside) and an onboard charger to the vehicle. As Manu writes, the benefits to this system include technology that is here today (June 2008 is the expected debut) and that Alpha-Core is not a new company, so funding issues shouldn't hold the Poulsen system back. The device costs $3,300, with another $600 for professional installation. Poulsen Hybrid, Inc. is a company based in Shelton, Connecticut and is connected to Alpha-Core, a division of Bridgeport Magnetics, Inc. So, whaddya think?
[Source: Poulsen, h/t to Manu]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Throwback 2:03PM (5/07/2008)
I think the exterior mount would be an issue. Do the entries have to be meet emmision and safety regs?
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Cervus 2:16PM (5/07/2008)
What happens if you need to change a tire?
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MarkR 2:35PM (5/07/2008)
I don't know if they are a sleeper to win but, with first look, that is one ingenious design. This is probably one of the better ideas I've seen yet regarding converting existing automobiles to hybrids. Maybe I won't have to sell my truck after all. I'd just like to see some mpg increase numbers from a variety of automobiles.
I don't see why the exterior mount would pose a problem, its really no different than an old car that had a skirt over the wheel.
regarding install doesn't sound to complicated. sounds like any chimp could do it. but if you don't know how to take off a flat tire already it may be to complex for you.
http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/install.html
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Wave54 2:40PM (5/07/2008)
Interesting concept and unlike virtually everything I read on the blogs, it's not that expensive and I only live 40 miles from their location in CT.
If my apartment had an outside power source -- it might be worth consideration to rejuvenate my poor-mileage subcompact that gets low-20s unless some highway miles are thrown in.
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Jimmy 3:03PM (5/07/2008)
I'm not sure I understand this. No regenerative braking ?
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Manu Sharma 3:05PM (5/07/2008)
Thanks, Sebastian. The best thing going for them is the low price (~3000 vs. lets say 30,000 for a new car) and the quick installation. You take your ICE car to their authorized installer and pick up a plug-in electric two hours later! Just like that.
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Dave 3:06PM (5/07/2008)
My questions/comments:
1. How do the motors tie into gas/brake controls?
2. External mounting could make them vulnerable to curbing which is common when parallel parking.
3. Otherwise looks pretty slick!
What kind of fuel economy gains can you expect in various driving cycles?
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Kardax 3:09PM (5/07/2008)
The automotive x-prize isn't simply 100MPG = win. Any electrically-propelled car can achieve that.
The problem is all the other things, like doing it at highway speed while offering air conditioning, four seats, very long range, and other nice things. Most of the teams are ignoring these little details.
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jmspearman 3:14PM (5/07/2008)
This could have additional benefits beyond the obvious environmental ones. If you paint that thing orange it looks like the boot that big cities put on your car when you have too many parking tickets. You could start parking anywhere you want and never pay a meter! Ingenious!
Seriously, I'm glad to see people thinking out of the box (and off the car), especially since I've read that Ohio is against three wheeled cars. For the record Ohio bureaucrats also didn't want my friend to have a Tandoori oven in his restaurant because they had never seen one before (they probably don't know many Indians, either).
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Greeny 3:51PM (5/07/2008)
I'm really excited about this idea while at the same time suprised I had never heard anything about it before. I've been contemplating buying a brand new Toyota Prius but have been hesitant because I can't justify another car payment since I just paid off my current car, a Honda Accord. But I'll have no problem paying
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Seth 4:18PM (5/07/2008)
This is one of the greatest ideas I've seen for an actual, PRACTICAL conversion for existing cars. No messing around in the engine compartment, no transmission hacks. Just a sensor on the throttle body (probably) and two motors and a battery pack, and you're ready to go!
You don't have to give up any of your luxuries, and you save gas!
This is WAY more attractive to me than biofuels.
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Rami 4:20PM (5/07/2008)
Flat tire? You can easily take this thing apart, or even use fix a flat to keep going until you have to replace the tire or rotate it..
If they can design the batteries to fit in the spare tire space in the trunk it will save the trunk for other things. Two things that I want to know.
Does it affect the wheel allignments?
How will it do in rain or snow?
as others have mentioned what about MPG improvements.
Great idea and very good execution if it all works..
Rami.
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wanderso 4:30PM (5/07/2008)
Very clever and very simple. Very low barrier to getting this system installed. If they use the dual-rotor air-core-stator CSIRO-style motor, they have chosen a design that can be 98%+ efficient. I would install it.
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fnc 6:49PM (5/07/2008)
As a I programmer I have to pay proper respect to such a truly brilliant hack.
Concerns:
I'm assuming this is for a front wheel drive car only? Even if it didn't mess up your transmission if attached to an RWD car, the system would still be turning the driveshaft and wasting energy there. Would an automatic transmission car be okay with essentially coasting great distances?
This weight is being added to a car that was probably not designed with weight conservation in mind in the first place, and this electric system has to haul around your entire existing drivetrain as so much dead weight. So I'd be really curious about how much range you're going to get out of those lead acid batteries in the end. (not to mention that running on gas you're now burning gas to haul around all those batteries and motors) But if it handles little jaunts around the neighborhood in all electric mode without you ever needing to fire up the petrol motor you're ahead of the game.
I can see a tinkerer taking a tiny old compact non-running car, gutting the old drivetrain, putting one of these in and getting a neat little electric neighborhood cruiser that's allowed to exceed 25 mph and is in most respects a normal car for under five or six grand. And of course you could put your groceries where the motor used to be. But then again, I bet there are a lot of electric conversions already out there made on fewer dimes than that.
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rgseidl 7:08PM (5/07/2008)
2 x 7hp isn't going to do very much. It's enough for cruising at 25mph, but you'll need that ICE to get any acceleration at all. I doubt you'll get 100mpg but with gas prices these days, even a 5-10% gain in fuel economy is welcome. I'd just caution potential buyers to do their sums before investing $3000 in such a system: saving 50 gallons a year means a savings of $200. It would take you 15 years to break even, assuming that the value of your car doesn't fall the minute you install these highly visible devices.
It might be a better idea to put those $3000 toward a smaller car to replace the one you've got - or a really nice electric bicycle.
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Snowdog 8:02PM (5/07/2008)
This 100mpg stuff is completely meaningless in a PHEV. You can claim any number you want with a complete lack of standards. It is farcical in this context. Battery range is likely 5 or 6 miles. You would need to charge it more than 10 times to get "100mpg".
200lbs of lead acid batteries in your trunk (that will probably last 2 years) all to get some minuscule electric ability through a bizarre hacked on external motor.
Sleeper? How about unconscious? This looks like an impractical curiosity and nothing more.
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jake 9:58PM (5/07/2008)
@Snowdog
Don't remember the specifics but if you go to the X-Prize website and look at the requirements I think they have set requirements on what kind of mix will be considered 100mpg. It definitely won't just be based on manufacturer claims because that would be pointless, since there are a bunch of plug-ins that claim 100+mpg today based on their own standard.
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Chris M 9:59PM (5/07/2008)
A clever way to add hybrid capability to non-hybrid vehicles. Cost is a major barrier to retrofitting older cars, this design is simple and relatively inexpensive. The biggest downside is the weight of the lead acid battery pack, but lead acid was chosen for the low cost. A car designed as a plug-in hybrid would outperform this retrofit in fuel economy, and possibly in overall costs as well, but this was designed for people who can't afford to replace their existing vehicle with something new.
The battery pack, 72 volt 120 amphour = 8,640 watthours or 8.6 Kwh. With relatively low power motors, this could provide a modest boost to performance and a modest improvement in fuel economy, in spite of the weight. Using a NiMH battery of the same capacity would cut the weight by over half, and LiIon by 4x or more, but would increase the cost.
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Eric Boyd 11:00PM (5/07/2008)
I interviewed Ulrik Poulsen and Sandu Pescaru of Alpha Core / Poulsen Hybrid about a month ago at the New York Auto Show. You can listen to the interview at Automotive X Prize Cars.
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Eric Boyd 11:01PM (5/07/2008)
And here is that link for the interview:
http://xprizecars.com/2008/03/interview-with-ulrik-poulsen.php
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