Autoextremist doesn't love scooters
Click on the image above for high-resolution shots of the Aprilia Scarabeo 200
There is a certain amount of truth to Peter M. De Lorenzo's latest rant regarding the recent trend of record scooter sales in the United States. For instance, while we often report on the fuel savings of the average two-wheeled means of transportation, we also advocate proper rider training and apparel. Nobody here is going to suggest that two-wheelin' is a safer choice than riding in your "cage." But, we can't disagree more with a few statements made on Autoextremist.com, particularly that riding on main city streets is a bad idea. In fact, there is no better place to ride your scooter. We have plenty of experience on the topic, and feel that a scooter can be an excellent city conveyance.
We also can't reconcile the comparison between the latent SUV craze and the current scooter craze. While there are parallels between the two, they end when the environmentally responsibleness of the subject is brought up. Unless you are packing your SUV with plenty of people and their belongings, they usually make neither economic or environmental sense. That said, we agree with De Lorenzo's claim that trading your fuel-guzzler for a fuel-sipper does not always make sound economic sense.
Now seems like a good time to remind our readers that not everyone should go out and get a scooter or small motorcycle. For some, though, they can make a fine alternative option when an a two-ton chunk of metal is just unnecessary.
[Source: Auto Extremist]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Cervus 5:49PM (5/27/2008)
I rode my Burgman 400 to work today and intend to leave my car parked unless the weather turns very hot. I get 60-65 mpg.
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BrianSouder 7:12PM (5/27/2008)
I rode my Oxygen Lepton electric scooter to work today. It costs about $0.16 to ride as opposed to the $8.00 or more for my Jeep Wrangler.
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meme 8:01PM (5/27/2008)
I am always amazed to see a person talk about how something with a less than five year payback period (on a product that'll slow your depreciation rate to boot) doesn't make economic sense. Have these people *never* invested in *anything* in their lives? Since when on Earth is a five-year payback period on an investment a *bad* choice?
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fnc 8:05PM (5/27/2008)
His rant really just boiled down to "don't ride a scooter unless you're very observant of your surroundings". Can't say I disagree with that. I think they can co-exist with cars on city streets just fine, we should show the person on a scooter the same level of courtesy as we would a motorcycle or car. People in cars don't have some innate right to be bullies to other people trying to move themselves along (despite what some drivers think). But it does take a particular brand of bravery to put yourself between all those two ton bricks on a busy thoroughfare.
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jim 9:32AM (5/28/2008)
Living in a beach community, scooters are common, in fact the other day I watched a portly, 50ish gentleman riding a Metropolitan. With a top speed below the posted for the road he was on, he pulled into the bicycle lane to allow a couple of cars to pass. While in the bike lane he passed several driveways with limited visibility and the openings of a couple of intersecting streets, all at about 25 mph. Fortunately there were no other vehicles or pedestrians. That was DeLorenzo's point.
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Jared 9:42AM (5/28/2008)
Yesterday I saw a woman on a scooter behind me on Memorial Drive in Cambridge, MA. While she did have a helmet, she was wearing a tank-top, no gloves, shorts, and sandals. With traffic moving at 40 mph, she would be a bloody pulp after even the most minor accident.
So many people are now buying scooters, but they have no training and no safety equipment and have given no thought towards the risks. They will come to grief. It is just a matter of when it will happen, not if.
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Mike 12:13PM (5/28/2008)
What a killjoy, DeLorenzo is obviously so not cool enough to ride a scooter.
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Bill 2:17PM (5/28/2008)
A friend of mine was considering the purchase of a scooter mainly because of gas prices. I talked him out of it with the argument that the time to buy a scooter was when gas is in short supply, not because of high prices. He is an experienced two wheel driver and fully understands the dangers involved.
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Tom 2:33PM (5/28/2008)
Just curious. Do most scooters have a catalytic convertor? If not, is it possible that they pollute more per mile than an SUV?
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Jrod 2:53PM (5/28/2008)
Autoextremist seems to be concerned about safety mostly. Maybe car drivers would become more attentive car drivers if there were more scooters on the road. If you're going to get a scooter, do yourself a favor and get one that's bigger than 50cc's (often the throttle is more important than the brakes when trouble strikes) and had a large wheel diameter (what pothole?). Remember that there are 2 kinds of riders: those that have been down and those that are going down. People that ride and daydream end up injured or worse real fast.
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Jeff the Baptist 2:53PM (5/28/2008)
Since when on Earth is a five-year payback period on an investment a *bad* choice?
Motorcycles and scooters depreciate with mileage much faster than cars. They don't hold up to mileage anywhere near as well either. A motorcycle with 12000 miles on it is old, 50000 is ancient, and 100000 probably has had at least one major engine rebuild/replacement. In short, a five year investment is bad when the thing you're investing in will be used up in four years of heavy use.
And everything DeLorenzo said about scooter riders being complacent and not wearing gear is absolutely true. Where I work < 250cc scooters are in a legal loophole. They aren't motorcycles and don't require the extra license stamp (and training) or insurance. They also don't require motorcycle gear or even bicycle helmets (they're not either). So you see people zipping around at 35-40 mph in ball caps, shorts, t-shirts, and maybe sneakers. And they're riding on gravel shoulders half the time. It's a nasty accident waiting to happen even without an inattentive car in the picture.
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DADvocate 10:48PM (5/29/2008)
As Jared mentions, many riders don't take proper safety precautions. The lady in the pix has on sandals, a definite no-no. I recommend avoiding shorts also. Some scooters/motorcycles easily burn the side of your leg. One accident and the ensuing medical costs will far override fuel savings. (I've had 3 motorcycles.)
Scooters and motorcycles do not have catalytic converters. Some polluter more than cars. A scooter with a 2-cycle engine most likely pollutes more.
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Tristan Phillips 4:35PM (5/28/2008)
Jeff the Baptist: Where do you get those silly numbers on motorcycle wear? I put 12K miles on my motorcycle a season in New York. 50K, with proper maintenance is easily doable on modern bikes. Engine failure isn't generally expected for a maintained, non-abused bike at the 80K-100K.
As for depreciation, have you ever bothered to look at the blue book value for used motorcycles? The depreciate quickly, then plateau for quite a while befor hitting the basement. 5 years to pay off a bike that will last 5-10 years (Or in some cases 20+. See the sport touring, gold wing, and dual sport markets) makes good financial sense.
Scooters are dealt with differently in each state; you should post what state you're writing about when talking about how they're regulated. New York has 3 classes, with two of them requiring motorcycle endorsements and all three requiring helmets.
Please do some reading before spouting information that is incorrect.
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Cervus 3:53PM (5/28/2008)
It doesn't matter if you have a 50cc machine. You always wear the right protective gear. Always. 35mph on a small machine will do the same amount of damage.
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Mike 3:53PM (5/28/2008)
"Yesterday I saw a woman on a scooter behind me on Memorial Drive in Cambridge, MA. While she did have a helmet, she was wearing a tank-top, no gloves, shorts, and sandals."
Some people have all the luck.
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Dan Palmer 4:06PM (5/28/2008)
I read the rant. DiLorenzo's primary point seems to be not that scooters are bad or inappropriate for urban use, but that most people are not good enough drivers to be able to use one safely.
That's probably a supportable assertion.
Jeff the Babtist, If you are buying new I might agree with you, but there is a huge number of low mileage, infrequently ridden bikes out there. Just check ebay or Craigs List.
A well maintained late 80's early 90's UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) will sell for $1000 - $2,000 with less than 15k miles, which is not bad for a vehicle that might have retailed for $4k-$5k when new. Care to venture the depreciation on a 1985 Dodge Omni today? Some Harley and BMW models will have retained 50%+ of their original values.
A vintage Vespa can sell for more than it's original price.
Used low mileage scooters and small motorcyles can be purchased very inexpensively and, when ridden defensively, make terrific commuter vehicles, expecially in urban areas with available, but crowded, free street parking (ala Manhattan).
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Dan Palmer 6:06PM (5/28/2008)
Tom,
From a carbon perspective motorcycles and scooters are generally better than cars because less gas burned = less CO2. Although, some high performance bikes barely get into the mid 30's mpg wise. The Triumph Rocket III has an engine only 100cc's smaller than my Subaru.
Particulate and other emmission wise motorcycles are generally worse polluters than modern cars, which have been cleaned up to the point that Co2 is about all that comes out of their tail pipe. Today's bikes have catalysts and many are fuel injected, but they still lag cars in cleanliness of emmissions.
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Hucbald 9:41PM (5/28/2008)
I've been riding motorcycles for over thirty-five years (OK, I was ten when I got my first mini-bike) - wouldn't be caught dead on a scooter - so I can tell you with 100% certainty that injuries and deaths related to scooter/cage encounters will rise significantly as the numbers of scooters enter the traffic system. It is especially unhelpful to have advertisement photographs of pretty girls in short pants riding them... oh, but she has a helmet. Great, she'll be fully conscious as the asphalt abrades her skin off, transforming her life and ruining her looks forever. That is, if she's lucky.
It is the first couple of years of riding that are the most dangerous, as the clueless undergo a Darwinian selection process, so the problem with first-time scooter buyers will be particularly bad. Personally, I wear a full-face helmet, armored jacket, armored pants, armored gloves, and armored boots whenever I ride: This alone is an investment about equal to a scooter if you buy top-end gear, which is the only thing I'll wear.
When I'm in a four-wheeler, it's a full-size pickup, and I'm almost always alone, but I need a tonneau-covered bed to carry all of my gear. PLEASE somebody, put a turbodiesel of about 3.5L in a full-size pickup that will get 30+ MPG. Dodge is coming out with a 4.6L, but I think it might bee too big... we'll see.
If you ARE considering a scooter, here are some tips from a guy who has survived over 100K miles of riding:
1] Realize that you are completely invisible.
2] Realize that despite your invisibility, every cage driver is actively trying to kill you double-indemnity dead.
3] Watch every heavy truck you encounter intently until there is a zero percent chance that it continues to pose a danger.
You need to be smart AND lucky to survive on a two-wheeler.
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Steve 2:00PM (5/29/2008)
Also consider that DeLorenzo's essay not only expresses skepticism of scooter buyers, but also of American motorists in general -- and the attention required of those motorists to safely share the road with scooters.
I couldn't agree more. Yesterday afternoon a distracted motorist drifted into my lane from the oncoming direction while travelling at 45 mph. He/she was four feet into my lane as we passed, and continued drifting even further afterward, before finally correcting. There is no indication this motorist ever saw me at all.
A careless mistake that could ruin another motorist's week or month could easily ruin a two-wheeler's entire life. Consider DeLorenzo's rant with the "High-Octane Truth" it holds.
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Robert Schauf 4:51PM (6/01/2008)
pretty exciting to know that there is the technology available to get better mpg and still have plenty of power. We are going to see lots of innovation when fuel and gas companies are raping us.
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