Concerned about CO2? In the UK, just buy a diesel
British environmental site Clean Green Cars announced a report that says that buying a hybrid does not have significant CO2 advantage over an equivalent diesel. The report doesn't mention other tailpipe pollutants and doesn't say that hybrids are a bad thing themselves because they do lower gasoline consumption. It's just that hybrids are more appropriate for the U. S., where diesels are virtually unknown, than in the UK. Clean Green Cars also says that we have to wait for lithium-ion and plug-in hybrids to get real benefits, since it is these two improvements that will allow more drive time on electric power alone and will increase mileage, compared to modern hybrids which can barely move on electric power alone.
Clean Green Cars came to their results by performing a test that compared three hybrids with three similar diesel cars. The six cars performed a test that involved a round trip from central London to Brighton, which involved a mix of urban, dual carriageway and motorway driving. Their recommendation: Just buy an economical conventional engine. Find the results after the jump.
Toyota Prius vs. Jeep Patriot 2.0 CRD
Toyota Prius: 39.9 mpg (33 mpg U. S. or 7.1 l/100 km)
Jeep Patriot: 38.9 mpg (32 mpg U. S. or 7.3 l/100 km)
Honda Civic vs. Ford Focus Econetic
Honda Civic IMA: 40.2 mpg (33 mpg U. S. or 7.1 l/100 km)
Ford Focus Econetic: 52.7 mpg (44 mpg U. S. or 5.4 l/100 km)
Lexus GS450h vs. BMW 535d
Lexus GS 450h: 28.5 mpg (24 mpg U. S. or 9.9 l/100 km)
BMW 535d: 30.6 mpg (25 mpg U. S. or 9.2 l/100 km)
[Source: Clean Green Cars]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Peter 9:18AM (6/12/2008)
How the heck did they only get 33mpg out of Prius. People who beat the crap out of Prius, seldom get less than 40mpg (US). I think they messed up royally on the fill ups while trying to "prove " the end results they wanted (ie started out with less than a full tank on the Prius). I trust the mileage computer more than I trust these idiots to measure the fuel used accurately.
I also love how they claim to be comparing the Prius to the worse guzzler imaginable: an SUV. Then use a Patriot, which is an econobox dressed up to look like a jeep.
Crazy tilted test to drum up controversy and thus hits. Unfortunately this is all blogs do these days. Witness ABG posting of the ridiculous Pro Pollution post the other day.
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BlackbirdHighway 9:39AM (6/12/2008)
So they used the Prius to tow a 4000 pound trailer that didn't have any wheels? I know lots of people who have a Prius, and none of them get under 40 mpg with it.
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Philipp Metzler 9:54AM (6/12/2008)
Besides the question if the results are correct I'd say that the conclusion is wrong. If you can afford it buy a hybrid although it might not be better in every aspect. But every purchase is a democratic vote for a direction. And car makers just do what consumers want. So tell them what we want ;-)
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TheRookie 9:57AM (6/12/2008)
I never got less than 50mpg on my Prius. Typically it is 51 mpg during winter and 55 mpg in summer. And I've got quite heavy right foot, if you know what I mean. However, the UK press is now full of articles on how bad hybrids are (for example, Autoexpress claimed they only got 41mpg off it).
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BrianM 10:05AM (6/12/2008)
huh, something must be wrong with the Prius owner/drivers I know... none have said they could consistently get OVER 40mpg. Altitude and lots of 65+mph driving have a negative effect? I'm in Wyoming, and there's dang near NO "city" driving... even Wal-Mart is a 60 mile round trip drive on 65mph roads.
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Mulad 11:26AM (6/12/2008)
I certainly like what diesels can do, but I have to agree that the mileage they're reporting on those hybrids is very questionable. Over at greenhybrid.com's mileage database, the typical Prius gets 48 mpg (US). They also track the standard deviation, which is only about +/- 2.5 mpg. The story is pretty similar with the Civic. Granted, there may be a slight inherent bias with those drivers, but it seems to mesh fairly closely with what I've seen elsewhere.
Also, it doesn't look like these guys factored in that diesel has roughly 15% more carbon per gallon (I guess I've seen a range of 12-18%, depending on the amount of kerosene mixed in, etc.). You'd have to adjust the diesel cars downward to determine the gasoline-equivalent CO2 output.
Oddly, they seemed to get a more realistic estimate with that Lexus...
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Karkus 6:17PM (6/13/2008)
They got 57 (UK) on the computer, but the fillup technique (unreliable, especially on the Prius) got 39.9 MPG (UK). So they took the fillup number, without bothering to investigate why they might be so far apart. STOOOOOPID! You can find lots of reports on the web that show that the fillup technique on a Prius yields highly variable MPGs. However there are many people who have data for actual vs. computer MPG over several years (including myself). The consensus is that the display reads a just few % too high.
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Emil 12:53PM (6/12/2008)
1st of all - I'm quite doubtful about the data of 33MPG for a Prius. My neghbour has Prius and gets 1L to 18km (her dealer promised 1:22) - about 42 US MPG. And unlike other cars Prius gets its best economy in the city driving. About 2/3 of her mileage is highway - so the economy could be even better.
But there are more topics to discuss :
1. Diesels do pollute less CO2. But they do pollute NOX, PM ,CO etc. Those hazardous pollutants cause asthma and other respiratory diseases.
2. There is no contradiction between diesel and hybrid technologies. Check on this site about VW Golf.
3. From 1 barrel of crude oil we get about 19 gallons of gasoline, but only 7-9 gallons of diesel fuel. So if a nation relies on diesels - it will be required to import more and more crude oil.
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Earl 1:02PM (6/12/2008)
33 MPG in a Prius? What a bunch of idiots. I couldn't get 33 mpg if I tried. I've had mine for less than a year, and I'm getting 48-50 on every tank. They designed the test so the hybrids would fail, it's a bias report.
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Dad 4:41PM (6/12/2008)
"Just buy an economical conventional engine."
Enough said.
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why not the LS2LS7? 2:22PM (6/12/2008)
Even at the same consumption, the Diesel will put off 15% more CO2 per gallon because the Diesel has 15% more Cs in it per gallon.
What a crappy comparison this is.
So in two of these cases, the hybrid is whupping the Diesel.
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eckre 2:31PM (6/12/2008)
run it on BIODIESEL (B99) then it's no contest, 75% less co2. done and done.
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Dave 4:16PM (6/12/2008)
The only times I've gotten poor fuel economy in the Prius is during extended high speed driving (75-85 mph), that netted a tank somewhere around 40-42 mpg according to the computer.
Short trips of a few miles with aggressive driving, especially if it's cold out. This type of driving typically nets around 25-30mpg (according to the computer, These can really kill the fuel economy because when the engine is cold, the Prius chooses to burn extra fuel to keep the engine warm and reduce emissions of NOx, CO and HC.
So their comparison is comparing apples to oranges. First, they need to tune both the hybrid and diesel to emit similar levels of pollutants, then measure fuel economy. The hybrid will come out far ahead.
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