Lutz pegs first generation Chevy Volt price tag at $40,000
At this point any hope of picking up a first-generation Chevy Volt anywhere near the original $30,000 price target will likely come down to what tax incentives may be available at the state and federal level. GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz has told the Seattle Times that the first-generation Volt would retail for about $40,000. Even at that level GM won't be generating any profit on the car and likely won't start doing so until at least a second-generation model comes out. Unless automotive industry lobbyists can convince Congress to pass some of the proposed legislation that includes plug-in tax credits on the order of $7,000 for a Volt-type car, the price to the consumer is going to be at least one third more than originally envisioned. The combination of high gas prices that are driving consumers away from truck and fuel economy and emissions regulations will keep pushing GM and other manufacturers towards electrically driven cars. Lutz told the paper he expected one quarter to one half of all new cars between 2020 and 2025 to be electric with either batteries or hydrogen as the energy source.
[Source: Seattle Times]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dinosaurus 9:27AM (6/19/2008)
I think there will be enough early adopters willing to pay the premium price to move the Volts off the lots. As long as GM builds the Volt with a high level of quality so you don't feel like you are buying a $40,000 Cobolt then I think buyers should be satisfied. I would buy one, not to save the planet, but rather to have a car that is using energy that is produced here at home. That's exciting and worth a lot IMHO.
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ziv 9:31AM (6/19/2008)
Lutz. He is supposed to be the driver behind the Volt program but he has more egg on his face than anyone at GM, let alone Toyota, as he so famously predicted. "Comfortably under $30,000" was his earlier statement. Seems they may just price the Volt so high that the sales numbers will be tiny, making what could have been a game changing car into a footnote.
I still think that there is a good chance that the Volt will sell for $38,000 and will have nearly $10,000 in tax credits to reduce the real price to below $30,000, due to comments by other GM engineers, but I am going to wait and see.
The first decent plug in car with 30+ AER, under $30,000, I am all over it.
We need electric cars.
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Peter 11:23AM (6/19/2008)
"I think there will be enough early adopters willing to pay the premium price to move the Volts off the lots."
There will, of course, be some. But at $40k this won't be a mass market vehicle.
Personally I likely wouldn't touch a GM 1.0 race to market with new technology project and I certainly wouldn't pay a premium to join this beta test.
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Tim 9:47AM (6/19/2008)
This is simply poor reporting.
I read the article and this is NOT a direct quote. Why?
The cars are still 2 years away and GM's doesn't even know their costs yet much less the retail price and how that will be affected by legislation that will surely come up in the next congress for the new president to sign.
Mr. Lutz probably said something to the effect that "we think the first Volts will cost us about $40K to produce." It is simply too soon to know for sure.
He HAS said that "we will take a loss on them for the first few years because they will be priced in the main stream" and "they will be priced for the main stream" and "we made them Chevy's because that is our main stream brand" and “we ultimately want to produce and sell millions” and that the Volt exists to compete with Toyota and the Prius which is priced well under $30K.
Don't get you panties in a bunch over hearsay.
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Steve 11:34AM (6/19/2008)
"Personally I likely wouldn't touch a GM 1.0 race to market with new technology project and I certainly wouldn't pay a premium to join this beta test."
I understand your point of view, especially considering how unhappy the EV1 leasees were with their cars, and eager they were to relinquish them.
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Peter 12:13PM (6/19/2008)
EV1 purchaser aren't representative of the general car buying public, any more than a $80K bidders for Rav4 EVs indicate any kind of market for $80k EVs.
Also it is not the EV part that likely represents the major issues, it is adding an ICE to the mix, which ups the complexity. People might discover that they don't like a small displacement engine reving at a fairly high constant revs when it kicks in (likely because that is the most efficient way to do it). Or on a longer road trip you may discover that once you deplete the battery, climbing long grades leaves the car crawling as the generator alone doesn't supply enough power to enable accelerating on a grade.
Then we have the big expensive battery. I wonder about the warranty on this massively priced item.
This is serial hybrid 1.0 built with a lot of components that will be off the shelf and bended to this purpose(but not optimized), integrated with first generation software. All of it rushed to market.
You would have to be quite naive to think it won't have quite a lot of issues.
In charge sustaining mode, will likely have worse fuel economy than Toyotas much cheaper new 3rd generation Prius that will be out at the same time.
It will be a question of how many people will pay anything and put up with anything for the privilege of plugging in.
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tankd0g 1:21PM (6/19/2008)
I'll wager that the number of people that would have actually put down $40,000 in the 1990's (which is more like $50,000 thanks to Bushes inflation plan) for a glorified golf cart is pretty small. Now people are getting excited about tax payer dollars subsidizing the sale of EV1 2.0 to the tune of up to $10,000??? Do you know how much gas $10,000 buys? This is pathetic.
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david burgdorff 1:35PM (6/19/2008)
I agree with Tim. Lutz said the Volt would cost $40,000 to produce. He didn't say it would cost us $40,000. GM has said it expects to lose money on the Volt for several years. If they want economies of scale it will have to cost far less than $40,000.
Could these LiIon batteries really end up costing $20,000? If so lets go back to making the EV1 with NiMH batteries.
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Steve 4:00PM (6/19/2008)
Peter, you do raise some good points about the EV1 demographic and illustrate some interesting concerns about how series-hybrid charging and output will be managed.
But it seems to me that by 2010/11, assuming the gas has leveled off at $5/gal and not climbed further, there will be plenty of buyers lined up simply for the appeal of plugging-in their daily driver to wall outlet for their commute.
I don't know much about the specific technical aspects of the project, but I'd like to believe the generator would kick on by the time the battery reaches half-capacity, and be able to keep up with maintaining (if not raising) the level of battery charge under prolonged circumstances that involve 75-90% throttle. But since neither of us knows the specifics of GM's engineering, such discussion at this point is mostly speculation.
Yes, climbing up long mountain passes will probably take longer than the same stretch done in a WRX or CTS. But it's my understanding that current Prius isn't exactly a Pike's Peak record setter, either.
You claim it's being rushed to market, others claim GM is dragging their feet by taking four years. Personally, I don't see four years (which doesn't include the time spent on R/D before the 2007 autoshow concept was introduced) as "rushing" to the point of ensuring a bug-riddled release.
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Roger Rodrigues 3:05PM (6/19/2008)
How much over list will the dealers charge to fill their pockets?
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Yanquetino 6:14PM (6/19/2008)
I think it is worth remembering that the base price for a Toyota Prius is currently $21,500:
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/
And adding a Hymotion L5 Module to convert it into a PHEV costs $9,995:
http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/faqs
That would give you a PHEV with a much lower price tag ($31,495), a comparable electric range (30-40 miles), an equal amount of seating (with more useable cargo space) --and a much better looking vehicle than the deplorable Volt.
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BlackbirdHighway 7:23PM (6/19/2008)
Yanquetino, you are right.
I think the only thing you give up is that the 40 miles of electric driving can't be at highway speed. That doesn't seem to be worth an extra $8,500 to me.
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Paul 1:47AM (6/20/2008)
My electric conversion is under $2000, and the range will be about 45 miles. After the 40 miles, it then "switches to gas" in the sense that I drive home and start driving my other car. However, 9/10 times I don't go more than 40 miles in a day.
The Lead Acid batteries from Walmart typically last about 3 years, and cost about $800-900.
My car is a piece of crap VW 1971 super beetle. It's embarassing that someone that doesn't even know how to change his own oil can do something that the volt can barely do, and at 1/20 of the cost. It's true, that the volt will have a range of like 650 miles, but who gives a crap when 90% of my driving is under 30 miles a day. I'll drive my Kia Spectra when I go visit grandma this summer.
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TIMMAH! 2:23AM (6/20/2008)
Maybe they're out to prove that there's no market for the electric car again...
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Chris M 3:39AM (6/20/2008)
Here is a frightening thought. With rising oil prices pushing an inflationary trend, $40,000 might not be considered all that expensive 2 years from now...
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motorman 11:22AM (6/20/2008)
wait till gasoline get hard to get like in the 70s and 80s people will be glad to buy a car like the volt at any price.
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LaughingTooHard 10:58PM (6/21/2008)
Yanquetino,
Just to add you are also giving up the "Toyota Quality" if big makers like GM and Toyota are anxious about li-ion packs, and Telsa had a more than a few battery problems, I'd be REALLY nervous about handing over $10K for battery pack 60% smaller than Volt's. At that price, the Volt's battery alone is worth $32,000!
Oh and you might want to rethink your comparison to the Volt's 40 mile EV only range.
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/439557
And that highway speed EV mod is worth a lot to people who don't like to putter around to 29 in 45 trying to keep the gas engine from turning on.
PM reported that the Volt will still do better around town and I am sure it will do better on the highway. No comparison there.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4215681.html?series=19
For me it is still a Volt in two years and if you think the Volt is less attractive than a Prius, I'd suggest you ask around a bit more. Besides the pseudo-eco wannabe's, the Prius is regarded as a pretty homely car.
Props for trying to impress women with your Prius, but last time I checked most woman are still more impressed by looks, income and the size of something other than your "carbon footprint"
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Ken 12:57AM (3/06/2009)
Lutz = Putz. Yea, I know that was way too easy.
Quite seriously $40K to buy a Volt from GM? Why didn’t you just make it out of spruce and throw dump trucks of dollars into a marketing campaign. Now you have a true “Green Vehicle”. Certainly enough buyers are willing to pay twice what a Toyota or Honda would cost them. Reinforce the door hinges buyers will be beating your dealer’s doors down to get a Volt. As you well know price is the last think car buyers think about. “Look how shinny it is…Oooh! May I pay you more then 40 thousand?” The two issues which brought this corporation to where it is now - COST and QUALITY.
Introducing a product like this with a 40k price tag and the hope of government incentives easing the sting is just so mind boggling. Seriously guys who's thinking for themselves? Are you immersed in a regime of mindless automatons?
As to the 10,000 lb gorilla hiding in the closet waiting to raise gas prices again, take a look at our current economic crisis. The rising cost of gas had nothing to do with it right? I purchased my first Toyota in 2004 after having GM products all my life; I had high hopes the Volt would not lead me back to the Toyota dealer. Good job Lutz! Once again Cost and Quality coupled with Excellent fuel economy will bring me back to a Toyota. There is your big three, if you are paying attention.
Every time you guys say "That just isn’t practical". I see your competition produce it. Oh and in case you missed it, WITH LOWER COST AND BETTER QUALITY. I just turned 100,000 miles on my first Toyota, its rock solid. I love the car as much now as when I first picked it up. Come drive my other vehicle a Chevy truck which cost me twice as much. I'm not waiting for the Volt; I'll just pick out a Prius now and beat the rush. You know Honda has a Hydrogen powered vehicle? Don’t worry Bob you can always pass the problem onto some other management team, or the Unions. That never gets old!
Lutz = Putz. Yea, I know that way too easy.
Quite seriously $40K to buy a Volt from GM? Why didn’t you just make it out of spruce and throw dump trucks of dollars into a marketing campaign. Now you have a “Green Vehicle”. Certainly enough buyers are willing to pay twice what a Toyota or Honda would cost them. Reinforce the door hinges buyers will be beating your dealer’s doors down to get a Volt. As you well know price is the last think car buyers think about. “Look how shinny it is…Oooh! May I pay you more then 40 thousand?” The two issues which brought this corporation to where it is now - COST and QUALITY.
Introducing a product like this with a 40k price tag and the hope of government incentives easing the sting is just so mind boggling. Seriously guys who's thinking for themselves? Are you immersed in a regime of mindless automatons?
As to the 10,000 lb gorilla hiding in the closet waiting to raise gas prices again, take a look at our current economic crisis. The rising cost of gas had nothing to do with it. I purchased my first Toyota in 2004 after having GM products all my life; I had high hopes that the Volt would not lead me back to the Toyota dealer. Good job Lutz! Once again Cost and Quality lead me to Toyota. Excellent fuel economy what number three.
Every time you guys say "That just isn’t practical". I see your competition produce it. Oh and in case you missed it, WITH LOWER COST AND BETTER QUALITY. I just turned 100,000 miles on my first Toyota, its rock solid. I love the car as much now as when I first picked it up. Come drive my other vehicle a Chevy truck. I'm not waiting for the Volt; I'll just pick out a Prius now and beat the rush. You know Honda has a Hydrogen powered vehicle? Don’t worry Bob you can always pass the problem onto some other management team, or the Unions. That never gets old.
One last thought, you could offer zero percent interest with a huge manufactures rebate!
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