A-Class Mercedes: Goodbye fuel cell, hello Tesla battery?
We recently confirmed the rumor that, yes, Mercedes is planning on building an electric car or two and now some of the details are starting to be firmed up. In an interview with German business daily, WirtschaftsWoche, Thomas Weber, a Mercedes board member responsible for research and vehicle development, let it be known that the company is building what was originally meant to be the fuel cell-powered A-Class (and possibly B-Class) as an all-electric model. Because of its "sandwich" construction and pre-existing electric drivetrain, these cars should be the first to join the electric Smart in the e-Mercedes lineup.
Another magazine, Automobilwoche, as well as reporting 2010 as the year of the e-Mercedes arrival, states that the supplier of the battery for the cars would be none other than the American firm Tesla Motors. The source of their information was not revealed and since this has not been officially stated by either company, it's still somewhat speculative. We know from talking with Tesla's Elon Musk that something is going on between them and Mercedes and it's definitely not a motor for the Whitestar, since Musk made it clear that Tesla products will remain gasoline-free. We also know that Daimler claims to have solved the thermal issues associated with lithium ion batteries of a certain chemistry by integrating battery cooling systems with that of the car. Then again, Continental has already been named a battery supplier for the Mercedes S 400 hybrid. If you care to enter into the supplier speculation sweepstakes, hit us up in the comments section.
Source: WirtschaftsWoche / Wall Street Journal]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Serge 1:33PM (6/30/2008)
I do not see FCEVs and BEVs as [fundamentally] different vehicles. After all, power-train is the same: electric motors powered by a battery. The difference is that an FCEV employs a fuel-cell to keep the battery at operating charge levels, extending the drivable range. A BEV solves the range problem by just adding more battery.
As electric propulsion technology matures via the introduction of BEVs in the next 5 years, fuel-cell tech can be integrated into it if and when the cost/infrastructure/manufacturing problems are resolved. Let the market decide what is a better option for range-extension.
Reply
jim 1:38PM (6/30/2008)
"Because of its "sandwich" construction..." It has been widely reported that the next A-Class do in 2010 will abandon the sandwich construction due to manufacturing cost and to more readily share components with other vehicles.
When the A was initially released on of the benefits touted for the sandwich construction was that it was easily adaptable for different power systems with electric being the most frequently mentioned.
Reply
why not the LS2LS7? 1:38PM (6/30/2008)
Tesla's battery isn't a very good model to copy or purchase. Even Tesla admits it has limitations due to them having to build it from regular LIons instead of getting ones that "cannot" catch fire.
Maybe Tesla has a new battery on the roadmap and that's what M-B is interested in?
Finally, I was pretty sure M-B said they were abandoning the sandwich construction on the A/B class in order to save money.
Reply
Joseph 2:45PM (6/30/2008)
Where has Tesla said that they have to use "regular" lithium batteries?
IMO, the reason they use "regular" (as in the kind used in laptops, made with cobalt) lithium batteries isbecause they are the most widely available, cost effective, and provide more energy density (for long range) than the types that do not catch fire.
Reply
eddy 3:06PM (6/30/2008)
There are rumors of three cooperations for electric cars at Mercedes:
1.One is Magna-Steyer, because they designed a modular construction kit for electric cars.
2.The other one is BMW, because both companies plan to build small electric cars.
3.The third one is a cooperation whit Tesla.
P.S.:
A cool solution would be a redesigned Whitestar with a 3-cylinder-diesel-range-extender from SMART and a small Mercedes-star on the hood.
Reply
jake 4:28PM (6/30/2008)
@why not the LS2LS7?
@Joseph
I think the various safety systems can effectively prevent the fires. In terms of energy density, the cells Tesla is using is still the best. I'm sure they can switch to the other cells if they feel it is appropriate. Tesla never said they HAVE to use the current cells. I think MBenz is more interested in Tesla's integrated battery pack design rather than details of the cells, since the cells can be easily swapped for other ones.
Reply
swaan 5:38PM (6/30/2008)
"pre-existing electric drivetrain" - did it exist before it existed?
Whats up with all the "pre-" prefix you americans?
Do you pre-fill your pre-used car at the gas station too?
Reply
SteveCT 9:50PM (6/30/2008)
HOORAY!
Finally someone ditches idiotic fuel cells for efficient BEVs!
*opens champagne*
Reply
Chris M 11:16PM (6/30/2008)
Mercedes may have solved the "Thermal issue" problem the easy way - by buying the technology from the experts at Tesla Motors.
This also makes me wonder if a joint venture of sorts is in the works, with "twin" models from Mercedes and Tesla differing only in cosmetic details and options. That would save them a lot in development costs. They might even share assembly lines, with Tesla producing both models in California for North America and Mercedes producing both models in Germany for Europe. That could save a bundle on shipping costs!
Chalk up another convert to the Battery side. Mercedes will "officially" support hydrogen fuel cells only as long as the government hydrogen research funds last, but with fuel cell prices remaining stubbornly unaffordable and that plug-ins are affordable now and getting cheaper, they realize the future really is electric.
Reply
Oliver Burke 10:18AM (7/02/2008)
Chris M,
Good speculation! I can see that too, seeing as it's rumored Tesla plans to go small as well. A little trade in the mix. Battery tech for manufacturing tech! Brilliant.
I see a lot of sharing as profitable between the EV divisions of companies at this point. For the planet at least. Hmm... :)
Ookuma 7:54AM (7/01/2008)
@swaan:
["pre-existing electric drivetrain" - did it exist before it existed?]
No, it existed before. How would you say that they are using an already-existing drivetrain?
[Whats up with all the "pre-" prefix you americans?]
It is actually quite useful. What is with all the euphemisms in British English for penis and masturbate/one who masturbates? Is it a that much of an obsession?
[Do you pre-fill your pre-used car at the gas station too?]
How exactly would one "pre-fill" anything? And a "pre-used" car is just a new one.
Reply
Doug 11:59AM (7/01/2008)
Hmmm... here's what I think:
Perhaps the "small deal" Musk referred to was that Tesla is supplying Daimler with a few battery packs just for evaluation. This would seem plausible given that Mercedes appears to still be looking at other options. Then the potential "very big deal" would be an actual contract to provide battery packs for Mercedes EVs. For a small company like Tesla, that certainly would be a big deal.
Reply