GM's Larry Nitz confirms Volt will use 1.4L four cylinder, talks Two-Mode
The man in charge of hybrid powertrain development at GM Larry Nitz has confirmed that the E-Flex team has made the decision to switch engines for the range extender in the upcoming Chevy Volt. The original concept was to use a turbocharged 1.0L three cylinder engine to drive the generator. Instead they have decided to use a 1.4L normally aspirated version of the engine that will power the upcoming Chevy Cruze in turbo form. Nitz also discussed the issue of why performance of the Volt won't be degraded when running in charge sustaining mode, the status of the Plug-in Vue and expansion of Two-Mode hybrid availability. Full explanations are available in the Green Fuels Forecast interview.
[Source: Green Fuels Forecast]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
sensitive_man 4:28PM (7/26/2008)
Is it me or is this thing already going down the wrong path?
Why must everything be bigger and faster? I just want something that will get me there safely, timely and with extreme fuel efficiency. Preferably without any gas at all.
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taser 9:30PM (7/26/2008)
Perhaps you should read the linked article. The 4 cylinder uses less fuel in this application, runs smoother, and weighs less than the 3 cylinder turbo. It addition, it's cheaper and easier to work on.
It sounds like a smart design.
tankd0g 9:52PM (7/26/2008)
Less fuel and runs smoother than what? The engine they never built? Marketing BS.
why not the LS2LS7? 10:00PM (7/26/2008)
tankd0g:
The smoother is considered to be axiomatic, since the 1.0L was a 3-cylinder and 3-cylinders run rougher than 4.
As to the efficiency and the "engine they never built", GM has engineers and access to a machine shop. They can build a 1-off 1.0T engine for comparison with little difficulty.
You haven't seen either of the motors in question, you have absolutely no data with which to back up your assertions.
tankd0g 11:34PM (7/26/2008)
I know they don't have a car to put it in so I'm pretty confident they didn't try either one yet.
why not the LS2LS7? 1:23AM (7/27/2008)
What are you talking about? There are already mules for the car.
And you don't even need to put it into a car to test it. They have dynos you know. I'm sure there are several stationary testbeds for the hybrid system at the GMPG that they can utilize either motor in.
tankd0g 6:32PM (7/27/2008)
Mules and dynos don't tell you how loud or efficient a motor is going to be in the finished car, which is what they are claiming the 1.4 does better here. Don't fall for their BS, this is just another cost cutting measure. Using a motor off the shelf instead of developing one for the Volt. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a rare instance of sensibility from GM in fact, but don't blow smoke up my ass and try to tell me they just happened to already have a better 4 cylinder available that's better than anything they could develop for this all new car.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:33AM (7/30/2008)
tankd0g:
A mule would definitely give you an idea of the efficiency of the engine in the car. Normally a dyno would give you a rough idea. In this case, a dyno would tell you almost everything you need to know, because its' a SERIAL HYBRID. The ICE only runs a generator, it doesn't run the drivetrain directly.
So you just hook the motor to a generator, and then put an appropriately-sized electrical load on it and you've simulated the Volt usage situation for the engine nearly perfectly.
Brent 4:34PM (7/26/2008)
I thin the next announcement will be that they decided against using batteries in this car. :)
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Brent 4:34PM (7/26/2008)
*think
tankd0g 9:52PM (7/26/2008)
I figure 2.0L motor fist then abandonment of the serial design.
Dave 4:40PM (7/26/2008)
I cannot justify buying a car that's got two engines in it and two power sources and a premium of 8 to 10K dollars. I will continue to drive my current Nissan Altima with a four banger until either EV's with an exceptable range and price become available OR there are breakthroughs on gas engines that can get greater than 50 mpg. I think in a few years the people who bought Hybrids will regret it.
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brody 8:16PM (7/27/2008)
I get 65 mpg average in my 9 year old Honda Insight. If there was no hybrid system it would still get over 50MPG. I think in a few years people will regret owning gas burners and PHEV or REEVs. Live dense and close to work, Buy a BEV and keep your old ICE for the occasional road trip.
Mike!!ekiM 4:51PM (7/26/2008)
I too am worried that they think this thing won't burn enough gas with the 1 Liter turbo.
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Tony Belding 5:19PM (7/26/2008)
It sounds good to me. If they say the 4-cyl works out lighter weight and smoother than the 3-cyl-turbo, I have no reason to doubt that.
In the long run I doubt whether conventional piston engines are best for PHEV applications at all. Rotory or turbine engines or some other variant might work better. But piston engines are what GM can pull "off the shelf" and already have vast experience with.
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ziv 7:28PM (7/26/2008)
1.0L or 1.4L doesn't really matter to me or to most people. We won't use enough gasoline to make a difference, since we don't drive more than 40 miles a day much more than once a month or so. Within a year or two of BEVs and EREVs being built in significant numbers there will be charging stations all over the place, anyway.
With a wind generator in my back yard my electricity bill probably won't even budge from where it would be without the Volt.
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Joseph 8:06PM (7/26/2008)
This is good. The "1.4L NA (naturally aspirated) four has better brake-specific fuel consumption than the 1.0L turbo when used in steady state mode, as it will be in the Volt application." Plus it will be smoother and quiter, which is very important because an engine running at somewhere around 3,000 rpm is pretty noisy especially when you're used to anotherwise quiet electric car.
They probably could make a good three-cylinder, but that might take alot of design effort, which means more cost for the consumer. I know it's possible to make a smooth three-cylinder engine. Just listen to a Honda Insight running. I expected it to be rather noisy, but its engine was just as quiet (or quieter) than a four-cylinder; it just sounded kinda different.
On another note. It's very good to learn that "The PHEV version (of the Vue) adds a plug-in charging system and replaces the nickel metal hydride battery with a lithium unit." Yipee! Lithium!
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a.brien 8:16PM (7/26/2008)
With all these invesments in researchs and devellopments to save gas without any products for sale, i think that GM is going head-on at bankruptcy. Maybe they can buy the battery they sold to chevron oil compagny?
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tankd0g 9:53PM (7/26/2008)
There's a whole lot of double-speak in that press release, but if I understand him correctly, the way they plan to prevent dimished performance when the battery is drained is they plan to never let the battery get drawn down below half charge, which means all you folks that think you are going to be using no gas in your 40 mile commute are in for a rude awakening.
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why not the LS2LS7? 10:13PM (7/26/2008)
tankd0g:
The 40 mile range takes into account the 35-85% restriction. It was one of the items Toyota mentioned in their smack-talk towards GM in saying how PHEVs w/some zero-emission range don't make sense (before they admitted to working on their own).
What they appear to be saying is that since in normal use periods of higher consumption than the engine can provide are typically very short, and the battery in normal use doesn't go below 35% charge, then can "borrow" a little extra energy by going below the minimum 35% (perhaps to 33% or 34%) for a few seconds, knowing that the energy will be returned after the peak expenditure passes rather rapidly.
This is very smart, and makes a ton of sense. Since in street use cars don't remain at high expenditure (wide throttle openings) for long. You just do it to pass or whatever. Even if you nail the throttle, you hit the speed limiter in short order (the limiter will certainly be very low on the Volt, probably 100mph). Of course, if you were to tow a heavy trailer, or climb a very steep hill you can ride at high expenditure for a long period and I would imagine in that case the car would then fall into a reduced performance mode. But that's not considered a typical case (in fact, towing is likely explicitly prohibited).
My only question is what happens when it is cold outside? LIons act is if they have greatly reduced capacity below 30F, although the energy is still in the battery, it just won't let it out, so as the battery warms up the deficit disappears. So if it is cold outside, and the battery pack isn't warmed up yet, and you hammer the pedal, I have to imagine the car will exhibit reduced performance, like a Prius does (Prius mpg drops to about 30 when it is too cold for the batteries to work correctly).