With these prices, hybrids will only be elite cars
One of France's most prestigious newspapers, Le Monde, has published a very interesting article about the real impact and the future of green cars regarding Japanese automakers. Basically, the idea is that automakers are asking (and getting) help to develop green technologies. It quotes Carlos Ghosn's concerns about hybrid cars really catching on, where he states that hybrids might only be a niche market, while remaining "skeptical about the commercial potential of these technologies." The truth is that they justify this in the not-so-big impact of hybrid cars sold in the U. S.: 350,289 cars in 2007 (out of 16 million car sales), although I do believe it's significant enough.
Regarding the Japanese market, the article explains that the impact of hybrid cars is even smaller. And this is because of the price difference between hybrids and its non-hybrid siblings: a Honda Civic Hybrid costs ¥400,000 or $3,700 more than the conventional model. Bearing this in mind and that Japan's target is to reduce emissions by 23.5 percent in 2015, Japanese automakers are asking for help to make these technologies available for more people. And the Japanese government has heard their plea: ¥209 billion ($1,9 billion) between now and 2012 have been allocated to the auto industry to find green technologies (not only hybrids but also biofuels). ¥32 billion are directly invested in hydrogen fuel cell technology, ¥25 billion for EVs and ¥24 billion for Liquified Petroleum Gas.
[Source: Le Monde]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wildgoosechase 4:59PM (8/04/2008)
This is a valid point. The Prius is going for $23k and will likely rise in price, the Volt will likely be sold $40k. These will be the largest cars available that get 40+ mpg even though they are technically compacts. In the future will will see large luxury cars price to compensate for the gas tax, very expensive hybrids or reasonably prices compacts and subcompacts for the majority of society.
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Gary Reysa 9:20PM (8/04/2008)
Wildgoosechase
www.fueleconomy.gov rates the Prius as a midsize car (same as the Camry).
Camry has 101 cf of passenger cabin space compared to 96 for Prius. Trunk space is equal.
To me, it feels just as roomy as the Subaru Outback it replaced for us.
Gary
Nick 5:52PM (8/04/2008)
Honda has a hybrid planned that will be very cheap...very soon. So the whole study won't hold any longer when it comes out.
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Blar 11:54AM (8/05/2008)
Since it isn't out yet, how do you know the price or specs for sure?
Also, the trend of Hondas hybrids so far has been their integrated motor assist system. This is more of a mild hybrid like GM's BAS system and I don't think either is all that expensive but they are also limited in their capabilities. The largest benefit may be motor stop/start in heavy traffic.
Systems like the Synergy drive used by Toyota and the Two Mode used in GM trucks and busses are much more complex and expensive, especially in the battery department. This is the type of system that will likely be needed to get cars that we currently consider "mid sized" up into 40mpg territory while still retaining the acceleration that the consumer expects. Considering that GM has publicly said that the hybrid SUV's are sold at a loss at $55k and the Volt is expected to lose money at $40k, then the fair market value of these types of vehicles does likely make them "elite" cars.
sensitive_man 6:20PM (8/04/2008)
The Volt design is a sports car. Are you telling me sports cars don't sell for more than 40k?
As for the Prius. The Prius is a family sized car that seats a family of 5. Why not compare it with a similarly equipped Nissan, Honda, or GM car? Then decide if you want to drive a car that gets 19-22mpg or one that gets 44-52mpg.
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Blar 12:16PM (8/06/2008)
The Volt is a sports car??? Since when did that change? The concept was always a 4 door, 4 seat sedan. It has never even been billed as a sports car by any of the press releases I have read.
rob 8:04PM (8/04/2008)
I love it when analysts show exactly how poorly they pay attention to the industry they supposedly are experts in.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-insight.html
2010 Honda Insight, below $18,500.
That's only about a $2500 premium on base model Fit...
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diffrunt 8:59PM (8/04/2008)
fondled, briefly, 08 Tahoe hybrid today. 12% better mileage than stock model. much attention to lighter wt seats, panels,
etc. all the bells & whistles including glass dash & stupid hole in the roof.
And only $12.5 K MORE than std model.!!!! Where is the logic in causing higher labor rates for working on a dangerous, overwired, diminished return on investment otherwise nice piece of merchandise. Been sticking w/GM wheels for 50 yrs but this ain,t one of them.
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BG Auto 9:47PM (8/04/2008)
Please read-Americans need to know!!!!!!!!
NHTSA Hearings 8/4/08
I just returned from the NHTSA hearings held today (August 4, 2008) in Washington D.C., regarding the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for NEW Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards (CAFÉ) for years 2011-2015.
IMPORTANT FACTS: You will not believe what you are reading.
1) The 414 pages DEIS analysis was based on an average gasoline price of USD $2.16/gallon for 2011-2020. A calculation approved by the NHTSA administrators/managers. Would you believe it???????????
2) The new CAFÉ rules were also established, negotiated and pre-approved by the NHTSA’s management along with the influence of domestic automotive companies and their lobbyists. We have now established fuel standards for 2011-2020 that are presently met throughout the rest of the Western world (see elow)
As one guest speaker said today “are they on another planet?”
NHTSA “NEW Fuel Standards” (2011-2015) decision:
Automobiles are to achieve 31.2 mpg by 2011 and 35.7 mpg by 2015. Light trucks are to achieve 25 mpg by 2011, and 28.6 mpg by 2015.
The NTHSA is also setting a goal of 35 mpg on average for 2020.
America needs to know:
The European Union is currently establishing standards, with a goal of reaching 48.9 miles per gallon for new passenger vehicles as early as 2012. The current EU standard already requires more than 40 miles per gallon about 15% higher than the U.S. goal set for 12 years from now.
Japan currently has a standard of about 40 miles per gallon. Japan aims to further improve fuel efficiency by 17% by 2015, reaching 46.9 miles per gallon.
China has a current average of slightly under 35 miles per gallon. Chinese fuel standards are on target to reach the government’s goal of 35.8 miles per gallon by 2009. China will not only meet, but exceed, the goal just established by the United States for 2020 — more than a full decade earlier.
Australia is targeting 34.4 miles per gallon by 2010.
Canada is targeting 34.1 miles per gallon by 2010.
Under the current administration, purchasing an electric vehicle is becoming more of a necessity rather than an alternative.
BG Automotive Group, Ltd.
http://www.BGelectricCars.com
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Noz 9:58PM (8/04/2008)
People shouldn't kid themselves...if the automakers want to make it a niche market, they will...and overnight.
This whole supply demand thing is utter bull...if they want to sway the market, they will very easily. We are not talking about choice here. We don't have any. Will most people start walking? No. Will they take the train? No. The bus? No.
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Mike!!ekiM 11:32AM (8/05/2008)
- Well I'll give you this, Exxon has spent very little on new exploration. Little exploration means little to discover and develop, causing a shortage?
But, if McCain gives up those coastal leases, will they actually develop any?
Exxon has made more money on the price run up of gas then they've made actually drilling for oil.
Phil L. 2:00PM (8/05/2008)
BG Auto -
Huh? BG Automotive want us to buy a $16K car that can only go 25 mph, on roads marked 35mph or less? This is hardly a solution. If it really is available for sale (projected date: October 2008)
Yes, I drive far less than 50 miles a day. At 25 mph, I'd be merely be a target on the road, waiting to get hit. The roads posted at 35 mph near me see rush hour traffic that does 50.
I like the NEV concept, but most people don't live places where it will work. We need a better solution.
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Cheap Energy CO 2:25PM (8/05/2008)
Phil I'm with you on this one all the EV's are just not practical on US streets. I Ride the Bus at least twice a week to work and try to telecommute two days a week to save MONEY. My office is 75 miles one way from my home because of the economy they closed the office 10 miles from my house. I'm cheap and would love to have solar panels and EV cars but the technology is just not there yet, maybe in 10 years or more. The Tesla is a rock/movie star car but not for the common man in the US yet. Oil is still the cheapest solution we have and will be for some time.