Ithaca, NY and Santa Cruz want PodCars, Personal Rapid Transit

Among the complaints that many Americans have about mass transit systems is that they don't go where people need to be and they don't like to be packed in with crowds on buses and trains. People like to have their personal space and a ride across town in a bus can also a long time because of all the stops. Enter the Podcar, a personal rapid transit system that uses small, autonomously-guided vehicles with a capacity of up to 10 people. Rather than running on a fix route network, the podcars would be able to travel point to point after the passengers enter a destination. Of course, the available points would still be limited to the rail network, but in theory, the cars would go non-stop. Demonstration systems are currently being run in various cities around the world including Upsalla, Sweden and a new system is set to go on-line at London's Heathrow airport next year. Hopefully that will function better than the baggage handling system at the new terminal that opened this year. Ithaca, New York, home of Cornell University and Ithica College wants to build the first large scale system of this type in the U.S. while Santa Cruz wants to build a smaller, solar-powered network. Perhaps the biggest problem with any of this is the cost. In the current economic environment, raising funding for any sort of large project will prove extremely problematic, a situation that may remain for many more years.
[Source: Detroit News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
JoeP 2:59PM (10/13/2008)
FYI: The town in upstate NY where Cornell is spelled "Ithaca" instead of "Ithica".
Thanks for tha article
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Michael Wendell 3:02PM (10/13/2008)
First, it's Ithaca, not Ithica.
Second, West Virginia University in Morgantown has had a PRT system running for more than 30 years! Here's a link...
http://admissions.wvu.edu/undergraduate/discover/prt.asp
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/morgantown/
Though the system is somewhat hampered by a limited number of stops, it's incredibly useful since the campus is quite hilly and split in two with a gap of a few miles in between. The only disadvantage I'm aware of is that the entire track system is heated with steam pipes embedded in the concrete and it costs over one thousand dollars a minute to keep the tracks ice-free in the winter.
However in a flatter, warmer climate, it would be perfect. Ithaca though, is worse than Morgantown on both counts. Maybe the eggheads at Cornell are working on a less expensive method for keeping the tracks free of ice?
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juanftm 3:15PM (10/13/2008)
Actually the pod track itself carries somewhere in the order of 300V; no amount of snow/ice will stand up to that.
Also note that Uppsala, Sweeden (where the weather conditions are more extreme) already has a working track.
Michael Wendell 3:45PM (10/13/2008)
I'm not familiar with that system, although if propulsion power can also be used to keep the tracks clear, it sounds great. The system here in Morgantown, just a few blocks from me, uses cars with rubber tires running on simple concrete track. Power is distributed through rails in the side walls of the track, so it does nothing to keep the track free of snow and ice.
Chris M 3:35AM (10/14/2008)
The Morgantown PRT system has several serious design flaws, the worst one is using an open top guideway that collects snow in the winter, thus requiring a heating system to melt the snow and ice. That heating consumes much more power than is needed to move the vehicles.
There are other PRT designs that are much better, including ones that have enclosed tracks to prevent snow accumulation.
Another flaw with Morgantown PRT is the vehicles are too big. Optimum size for maximum efficiency is 2 to 4 passengers.
slk23 4:23PM (10/13/2008)
I've been on automated trains at various airports, but never a system that allowed the riders to choose their destination. That would make getting to work a lot more pleasant.
More info on PRT at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit
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Phil L. 5:03PM (10/13/2008)
juanftm -
Voltage has nothing to do with keeping snow or ice off of conductive surfaces. The Washington D.C. Metro system runs on 750 volts, and has had a number of problems with 3rd-rail ice buildup preventing trains from running.
Those experiences led Metro to add heating systems in critical areas - but this is extra energy consumed that doesn't actually move people from place to place.
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Sidewinder 12:52AM (10/14/2008)
Morgantown was built in the '70's by a couple of large companies (Boeing & ??) who couldn't get their heads around the idea of true PRT (ie 1-4 people per car), so the original design was morphed into a Group Rapid Transit (GRT) concept, with bigger cars, bigger guideways & a much bigger pricetag (big companies like projects with a big pricetag).
That said, Morgantown has run accident-free since inauguration & pays half of its O & M costs out of a $0.50 fare
Today true PRT systems are being built at Heathrow Airport, in the Middle Eastern Model City of Masdar in Dubai, and are being considered in Portland, OR, San Rafael, Santa Cruz & Oakland, CA and Ithaca, NY.
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Chris M 3:42AM (10/14/2008)
The Morgantown PRT has several major design flaws, but the important thing is that it works, in spite of those flaws.
A mere 50% subsidy is actually very good for public transit, most public transit systems has subsidies of 70% or more. With a better more efficient design to reduce operating costs and improve ridership, the subsidies could be eliminated, and perhaps even make a profit!
cubiclegangsta 1:48AM (10/14/2008)
yeah. hello.
Tomorrowland @ Disneyland from 1967 to 1995: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeopleMover
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RetardedSparks 10:05AM (10/14/2008)
This is the dumbest thing in the world. Replacing cars on roads with cars on tracks doesn't help anything, especially if each "pod" only holds four people. You need to provide massive electrified rail or guideway infrastructure to get anything near point-to-point service. What does this do for pedestrian and bike access? If I'm the only one in a pod, can I keep other people out? If so, you are looking at 1 person per pod density. If not you are looking at lawsuits after the first rape or mugging.
I live in NYC and know one of the benefits of mass transit is the MASS part! You move many people at once, efficiently. And, despite stereotypes, there is a real benefit from having lots of people around to deter crime.
This pod thing is a gimmick. It might work fine in a relatively closed community like a college, or a ski resort. But it's not good public transit policy.
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Chris M 2:43AM (10/16/2008)
You remind me of those who put down the newfangled trains and automobiles, as horses could be fed on cheap grass and could reproduce themselves!
Those podcars may only hold a few people each, but they can run lots of cars with less than 1 second headway between cars. Light rail cars can hold lots of people, but run only a few cars with a headway is 3 minutes or more. A single podcar line can carry almost as many people as a single light rail line, but podcar guideways are laid out in a multi-line network covering a city, and is not restricted to just a few lines like most light rail systems. Result, a podcar network has a maximum carrying capacity far greater than any other public transit system, and can serve far more locations than any light rail or subway could ever dream of. Lightweight cars and lightweight guideways and compact stations make for low "per mile" installation costs, thus the city could afford far more coverage than with heavy and expensive to install rail systems.
Being isolated from traffic not only makes Podcars very safe, it also does not interfere with traffic, or bicycles, or pedestrians. In fact, most podcar designs are usable by cyclists, wheelchair users, and even pedestrians! Come to think of it, it is also compatable with existing subway and rail lines, so you could have your trains delivering large volumes of people downtown, with the podcars spreading them all over to destinations far from the rail lines.
It is much easier to "keep other people" out of a pod car, just close the door and go! You can't do that on a subway, or light rail, or bus. Podcars also go direct to their destination, and don't make any intermediate stops that let on other people the way subways, light rail and busses do. Moreover, the podcars wait for you so you can get in and go, and not have to spend minutes or hours at the station waiting for the next train or bus. While no place is completely "crime-proof", by its very nature podcars are safer and less vulnerable to crime than other public transit options, especially during late night off-peak hours. For additional safety, podcars could be equipped with "panic buttons" to send the car to the nearest police station or hospital and alert the authorities. Few muggers would risk that.
No offense, but NYC is hardly the typical city. Most other cities are more spread out with fewer high rise buildings, and their light rail or subway lines (if any) miss most of the city and suburbs. Podcar networks are well suited for cities, suburbs and large towns too.
RetardedSparks 2:05PM (10/17/2008)
Hmm, no chance you work for a podcar consulting company? :)
In any case, not that anyone cares anymore or will dig back to this post, but the problem with this proposal is that it relies on a single, massive, hopelessly Disney-esque solution to the transit problem and, frankly, the world rarely if ever works that way. There is so much more low hanging fruit that can be implemented incrementally and cheaply and solve problems of congestion and pollution now.
Pod cars to me are the Segway of public transit - a fancy, high tech, off target solution to a question nobody asked.
While you are correct that Henry Ford was proven right despite the complaints of the horse-riding masses, history is riddled with far more utopian flops than successes. How's that stock in Monorails-R-Us and the Flying Car Company that you bought back in the 60's doing?
Phil L. 12:34PM (10/14/2008)
cubiclegangsta -
Not a useful example. The PeopleMover had unpowered cars; the track had powered, rotating tires in it - every 9 feet - to keep the cars moving. This approach simply doesn't scale well, particularly if unprotected outdoors.
Walt Disney World's Tomorrowland Transit Authority offers more potential, using track-embedded linear synchronous motors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrowland_Transit_Authority
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Almashy 10:46PM (8/13/2009)
Please do remember that PRT is actually not cost-effective or efficient in a full-blown city. It is optimal in a city such as Ithaca, NY, which is both a full-fledged collegetown (30,000 students) and also a large town or small city (30,000 residents). Mass transit is most effective in those places of high density (Manhattan, Chicago, etc.), and not effective in Ithaca or Santa Cruz, or, say, Oklahoma City, a very low-population-density city (sprawl).
The Heathrow example is perfect: they aren't building a London PRT system, but one in a "microclimate" of urban planning and transportation, which incidentally has worked very well from my understanding in its operation so far.
And if my memory serves me correctly, there was a story of a woman mugged on the streets of New York City, which was never reported to the NYPD. When interviewed, witnesses stated such things as expecting another person to call or not noticing that something is wrong. Draw your own conclusions from that, but it certainly has never happened in either Santa Cruz or Ithaca.
I have just been exposed to this debate for some time, and thought I would voice some of the things that I had observed.
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