Lessons from a few hundred miles in an Audi A3 TDI
As I got ready to retire to my hotel room on the last night of my stint on the Audi Mileage Marathon last night, I happened to share the elevator with a young man. He spotted my Audi-provided name tag and asked if I worked for the automaker. I said no, that I write for this here site and, after I explained what we do - I was shocked, just shocked I tell you, that he didn't already know - he said, "oh, I have a Prius." I explained that we were driving some TDIs across the country and he responded, just as the elevator doors were closing, that, "If they ever make a hybrid, I'll buy one."
This, in a nutshell, illustrates Audi's (and VW's and Mercedes and etc.) diesel challenge perfectly. Clean diesel may be here, but does it beat a hybrid in efficiency, cost and eco-level?
Sam made the good point the other day that the economic situation in the U.S. might preclude many people from buying new clean diesels at all these days, but even if we all had the money to buy a car, who's going to opt for a diesel right now? Thanks to my three days on the road, I know that you can drive an A3 with the air conditioning on and go 80 miles per hour up and down mountain roads and still get 42 mpg. And, if you drive a little sensibly, you can get the computer to display 53 or 54 mpg. These numbers are certainly comparable to what you can do in a Prius, but that car offers more interior room and it's got icon status. Of course, an A3, if and when it arrives stateside, won't be as cheap as a Prius. So, for all of the American drivers who want to drive a car that's better for the environment than the one they had before, how does Audi make the case for a car like the A3? Who out there is convinced?
Gallery: Audi Mileage Marathon, Wave 3
Our travel and lodging for this media event was provided by the manufacturer.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sam Watson 8:03PM (10/16/2008)
Yes it is a hard sale. Same thing with the Smarts. We just got a dealership in my city. 18 month wait to get one from when you order it. 15-18k new. "Only" 41 mpg - but on premium fuel. Two seats & minimal cargo. They don't even have them to test drive because they are presold.
WTF.
I can go out and get a barely used Prius which gets double the mileage in the city (Smart is 30ish in the city vs. 54 for the prius) has 4 doors, seats five, and has a decent trunk for only $22k. And it sips normal cheap fuel. (Ala... not diesel either.)
I think diesel makes the most sense if you have biodiesel access. And even then, a hybrid diesel would be more ideal.
It is definitely a tough battle for the TDI in the current market.
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Brn 9:06AM (10/17/2008)
"I can go out and get a barely used Prius which gets double the mileage in the city (Smart is 30ish in the city vs. 54 for the prius)"
I think it's funny when people compare the price of a used car to the price of a new one. Then go on to compare an ETA estimate to some made up number by a hypermiler is even funnier.
I'm not a fan of the Smart, but please compare apples to apples.
Brn 9:06AM (10/17/2008)
ETA? That should be EPA.
amg 11:01AM (10/17/2008)
I don't know about that "54 MPG in the city." If you'd said "44 MPG" I would have been right with you, but people haven't been getting that kind of city mileage with the Prius without hypermiling techniques.
That said, yeah, the main reason I haven't bought a smart fortwo is the mileage. I'd forgive the slowness, ride, and transmission issues if it got 50 MPG in the city. That's why I'm hopeful that there will be a smart "ED" available here in the next few years. Of course, at that point, there may be other, more attractive options.
And I also agree that for a single car household, the Prius is a much better choice. Possibly even better would be the Jetta TDI Sportwagen.
Sam Watson 11:57AM (10/17/2008)
Brn - haha Points taken. I currently own a mid-size truck for work purposes. But I have actually considered the Smart (used price $12k) for a round towner. Still, $12k buys a lot of gas...
AMG: Yep - I am off with the 54 quote. If I blamed it on a typo I'd be lying... *grin* A popular mechanics shootout with the VW Jetta TDI puts the Prius at 44.7 in the city. Overall they gave the win to the Jetta. Interesting read:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4284188.html?series=19
Sooo... my inaccuracies in notions about the Prius further illustrate the battle Audi is up against when even Autobloggreen readers like me are somewhat misinformed... *chuckle*
Snowdog 8:10PM (10/16/2008)
A3 no. The only diesel VW family product I am considering would be the new Rabbit Diesel when it gets here.
But only if Honda doesn't bring a manual Hybrid.
And then only if Subaru doesn't bring over their diesel. In which case I may get a Forester or Impreza Diesel. Subaru has a timing chain where VW has a Belt.
All depends on the gas mileage of Mazdas new 3 with direct injection 2.0L.
Basically I am looking for a Hatch with good MPG and a manual shifter.
I may get some form of VW TDI but I may not. I think they have an even harder time where appliance drivers who want automatics will love the the new Prius.
Basically with the price premium on Diesel drivetrains and on diesel fuel.
It becomes a hard sell once you satisfy the diesel fan niche.
For the rest of us, it needs to make a dollars and cents kind of case.
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bruce 8:15PM (10/16/2008)
VW wouldn't have this problem if they would bring a smaller car, with an even more economical diesel engine, to the US market. The VW Polo, or something like it, would easily beat the numbers you quoted in this article (and those of the Prius), and would cost less than the A3.
We've heard the "Americans won't buy small hatchbacks" chicken-and-egg argument for far too long now... economic times are changing, and American car buying habits with them.
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desertsoujerner 8:29PM (10/16/2008)
Hey, I saw you guys on the interstate last night as you were entering Las Vegas. I had to comment to my fellow passengers, "Hey, it's that gas mileage marathon thing."
Any who, as I biologist I could never buy a prius. I need something that is a bit more capable on desert and mountain dirt roads. I realize that most people don't need a truck (and shouldn't have one if they don't need it) but I wish car companies would but more effort into capable off-road vehicles that would get good gas mileage.
That said, and assuming I would ever buy a new car, I think the A3 looks like a nice compromise, with all-wheel drive and that kind of mileage I would be willing to give it a try. But I'm much more likely to wait until I can get one that is about 5 years old and cheaper.
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Brn 9:09AM (10/17/2008)
You sound like a Ford Escape Hybrid candidate.
desertsoujerner 10:28AM (10/17/2008)
We have a regular escape in our fleet. It's ok. My main complaints are that it has a low clearance and small gas tank. The low clearance means driving across arroyos or deep rutted playas is pretty much out of the question. And the small gas tank means that trips to the remote regions of Death Valley and Grand Canyon require that we take gas cans which are smelly and can spill.
As for the hybrid. Most of our vehicles we pay for by the mile from the General Services Administration, GSA. But an hybrid costs an additional $5000 up front and that can be hard to work into a budget.
I think the four in hub motors on the Jeep electric hybrid look very exciting. It would have to be an REEV for us. Plus, GSA doesn't supply jeeps.
Brn 2:06PM (10/17/2008)
I agree that the Escape isn't the world's most capable four wheeler. Because you had interest in the A3, I thought it might make sense. I'm a little confused about your ground clearance concern, as the Escape has more than twice the clearance of the A3.
Like you, I'm not yet convinced that a hybrid is justifiable. It's getting there, but it hasn't got me yet.
jeffzekas 3:56PM (10/21/2008)
My son just bought an Escape Hybrid... nice car, but it only comes in 2WD! Personally, I am waiting for the Subaru diesel... reliable, and cheaper that Audi.
amca 9:52PM (10/16/2008)
Yeah, but if you're going to drive a Prius, you've got to drive a Prius. And, compared to an Audi, that's no fun at all.
Icon or not, the Prius offers a singularly unsatisfying driving experience.
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Jim 10:06PM (10/16/2008)
The big problem with owning an Audi is that, well, it's an Audi. I had an A6 wagon, which drove really well. the problem was the poor reliability and high cost of repairs. It seemed like every time I brought the car into the dealer ship for repairs, it was another $1000 or $2000. I traded it in for a Honda Pilot and have spent $0 (that's zero dollars) on unscheduled repairs over 89K miles in over five years.
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why not the LS2LS7? 11:03PM (10/16/2008)
I have a 2000 Audi A6 2.7T (no wagon version is avail in the US). And I'm the exact same way. I've had it for 9 years now, BTW.
It's just never been particularly reliable, it was 3 years old before it ever went 6 months without a repair. Also, every fix costs a fortune. I don't even measure in less than $1K increments.
My dealer wasted $2K of my money trying to fix a leak in the coolant system. They just claimed the problem was the most expensive part each time I took it in. A water pump one time, auxiliary water pump the next time. After the 2nd fix, I found out from a friend that the coolant reservoir often crack on the bottom from the heat of the engine. So I got a reservoir for $88 from the dealer, put it in myself (it's right on top of the engine) and that fixed it.
So the car is unreliable, and the dealers are awful. I couldn't possibly own another.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:06PM (10/16/2008)
You can get the computer to read 52mpg? You mean on the average screen I hope. Still, I find my Audi's mpg readings (even average) are very optimistic. It regularly reports 25mpg when I get 20.
So now that you've learned techniques to make an A3 get 25% better mpg, have you tried applying them to gas cars to see what you get?
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Sebastian 12:09AM (10/17/2008)
yes, i meant that your trip/tank average will be above 50 mpg, according to the little digital screen.
jon 11:27PM (10/16/2008)
the minute they sell a diesel a3 in the states, i will buy one.
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Mattias 5:04AM (10/17/2008)
You just can't compare diesels and hybrids. Hybrids are great for typical city traffic since they offer brake energy recuperation. Diesels are great for long distance commuting and travellig long highway sections. Of course diesel hybrids combine both advantages, but they also combine the added cost of a diesel with the added cost of a hybrid. Plus gas is still one third of tha price it is here in Europe, so the economical incentive is lower.
So it makes sense if no manufacturer does offer small cars with diesels in the US, I bet 95 percent of all future Ford Fiestas or Opel Corsa sold in the US soon (hopefully) will be used in short distance commuting and city traffic. So these manufacturers better opt for a hybrid option soon.
Diesel makes sense on larger cars that are used on longer distances. Thus the mileage marathon is a great showcase for those efficient larger cars. So Ford should think about the Lion diesel in cars like the Flex were the difference in consumption is really huge. GM would do good at testing the new RA63 in the Malibu or even in smaller trucks. The RA630 would make for a great replacement of this terrible five cylinder thing in the Colorado.
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Kevin 6:12AM (10/17/2008)
But the Prius is arse-ugly and is nothing more of a "I'm better than you" symbol for militant greenies. Those two reasons alone make anything else a better option for me.
Then there's the issue of performance... which once again puts the diesel is a FAR more favorable light.
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