MINI E gets it guts from AC Propulsion, not Tesla
While we were discussing the upcoming premiere of the new MINI E at the LA Auto Show, we mused that the retro-cute might be sporting a drivetrain courtesy of Tesla Motors. Now comes word via Paul Scott at the new website for the film, "Revenge of the Electric Car" that the MINI will get its gumption from the good folks at AC Propulsion. This may make the MINI spiritually related to the Tesla Roadster, as it was the ACP prototype, the tzero, that served as an inspiration of sorts for the creation of the now-iconic two-seater, but, as they will share no parts, the relationship is purely metaphysical. Indeed, the only current link between ACP and Tesla is the licensing of a "reductive charging" patent.
This revelation does tell us a little something about how the MINI E will be to drive. As those who have gripped the wheel of the ACP eBox know, the re-gen effect is quite strong on this system. While it's great for getting extra range out of the battery pack, it may take a little getting used to for some drivers. The effect is not unlike the engine braking experienced with a manually shifted car and occurs as one relieves the go-pedal of downward pressure. Once adjusted to the re-gen, the experience of motoring in the MINI E should be excellent and we look forward to being able to confirm that. For the benefit of our readers, of course.
Gallery: MINI E
[Source: The Revenge of the Electric Car]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
gorr 5:06PM (10/29/2008)
What i nice experience, you go to work but it's cold and there is traffic then in the evening you have to go to the movie theater and then at 10p.m you have to recharge up to 2 am and get back at 3 am to go to work at 7am while having charge from 3 to 7 and your boss charge you 10$ if you charge at work and some silly kids play jokes by un-pluging you electrical wire. A scooter might be a better choice.
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GoodCheer 5:14PM (10/29/2008)
The relation is more than metaphysical, since it is ACPropulsion power electronics and software that drive the Tesla as well.
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Chris M 10:18PM (10/29/2008)
Tesla started testing with AC Propulsion analog controllers, but developed their own digital controller that was more reliable.
Tesla did license the Reductive Charging design from AC Propulsion, it has the inverter circuitry do double duty - motor drive and voltage regulation for battery charging. That cuts the costs. It can also feed AC power back to the grid if desired, but I don't think Tesla has implemented that function.
organic 5:20PM (10/29/2008)
That is a shame since AC Propulsion is a chinese company.
At least Tesla's would have been American.
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GoodCheer 6:01PM (10/29/2008)
It is? When did that happen?
Reader 6:27PM (10/29/2008)
"AC Propulsion is a San Dimas, California, USA company founded in 1992 by Alan Cocconi. Tom Gage is currently the company's CEO. They produce goods such as electric vehicle drive systems and their top of the line electric sports car, the AC Propulsion tzero."
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion
EVan 6:35PM (10/29/2008)
AC Propulsion is NOT a Chinese company.
AC stands for Alan Cocconi and the company is headquartered in California.
Al Cocconi was the creator of the genius power electronics underneath the GM Sunraycer and more famously the Impact/EV1. In the early nineties he developed the most efficient power inverter to date.
Andrew 5:31PM (10/29/2008)
The Tesla started with AC Propulsion's power-electronics, but switched to a digitally-controlled design of their own shortly thereafter. JB was interviewed and quoted as saying they had trouble keeping the AC Propulsion system working from car-to-car, and that the analog-based controls from AC Propulsion were "ruinously expensive". Read it yourself here:
http://www.technologyreview.com/TR35/Profile.aspx?trid=742
Also, AC Propulsion was selling their power-electronics package for $25,000 - this would be on top of the nearly $30,000 needed for the Mini itself.
It sounds like either Mini was able to negotiate a better deal with AC Propulsion, or the "E" Mini will price itself out of the market.
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Serge 10:37AM (10/30/2008)
Does this mean that ACP-150 contoller they are using in Mini E is of older analog design that Tesla's engineers found problematic?
O. Emry 11:41AM (11/05/2008)
The AC-150 is ruinously expensive? It'd be hard to imagine a drivetrain more expensive than Tesla's. Only 50 cars to show for how many hundreds of millions spent?
stevefazek 6:21PM (10/29/2008)
I hate AC their crap is way over priced 25 grand for a controller and motor developed 18 years ago.
Solectra IMO is just as good and can be purchased for a fraction of that
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GoodCheer 6:31PM (10/29/2008)
Solectria (at least their power electronics group) is now Azure Dynamics.
stevefazek 6:57PM (10/29/2008)
i know but its all still built in MA and the same products
Nathaniel Sears 8:28PM (10/29/2008)
the mini starts at 19,200 not 30k. just so u all know. then add a 7,500 tax brake and that they will probably lower the price because you are not buying the engine radiator, cadilitic converter, ect.
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Brion Sprinsock 11:56PM (10/29/2008)
Good to hear that ACP is working on the Mini. This should be a solid, dependable, and zippy car. I've driven the ACP eBox and really liked it. I take one exception to your story regarding the aggressive regen being hard to get used to. ACP has an adjustable regen slider on the dashboard of the eBox. You can slide it up and down in real time to give maximum regen or back it off and have almost no regen at all. When I drove the eBox I used the slider to increase the regen when I came to stop almost negating the need for a brake pedal. I wish all EV's had this feature.
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NeverFollow 9:42PM (10/30/2008)
Most of buyer of the Mini E will live in big city in a rental apartment and will have to park in the street at night or if they are lucky will have a parking spot in the basement of their building.
Unless your land lord let you have a plug-in socket installed next to your parking spot, I don't see how possible it will be to recharge the batteries at night unless you own a separate house with an attached garage?
What are the regulations regarding the installation of a socket in the basement? How to get a permit for it? who should pay for it if you are not the owner of an apartment? Should you get a separate electric meter?
Does this EV really target people living in a city?
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Domenick Yoney 11:15PM (10/30/2008)
Charging location won't be a problem for the initial 500 MINI E rollout. From the company's press release,
"The MINI E's lithium-ion battery can be charged using a wallbox provided to MINI customers. Only lockable garages or similar buildings will qualify as homebases and power stations for the MINI E."
You can read the press release in its entirety here,
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/18/la-preview-officially-official-the-mini-e-does-it-use-a-tesl/