Audi likely to launch A3 TDI in US
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It makes pretty good sense for Audi to launch a diesel version of its A3 compact hatch here in the States. Since it uses the same platform as the Rabbit and Jetta, the 2.0L TDI is a sure-fire fit behind the A3's huge front grille. In fact, we've driven the A3 with that exact engine a few times already, notably while we were participating in the Audi Mileage Marathon a few weeks ago. Volkswagen has already certified its 140 horsepower oil-burner for sale here in the United States, so that's one more gigantic and expensive hurdle that wouldn't need to be crossed. Popular Mechanics recently sat down with officials from the German automaker and Audi's head of powertrain development Wolfganag Hatz confirmed that an unspecified Auti automobile would join the Q7 on our shores equipped with a diesel engine as early as next Spring. Sounds good to us.
Gallery: 2009 Audi A3
[Source: Popular Mechanics]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
thedirtmaster 4:57PM (11/23/2008)
Awesome, way to go Audi/VW for pushing the diesel platform forward in America! Its about freakin' time!
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Brad 5:34PM (11/23/2008)
This will be my new car, just give me quattro!
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Andrew T 8:01PM (11/23/2008)
Give me a TDI A5 and you will have a customer. A3 is a great car but just not for me.
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Max 1:58AM (11/24/2008)
Do you really need an A3 with 140hp ?
I had an A6 with 150hp and that was enough already for a much bigger car. Why couldn't the A3 have just say 120hp?
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Jesse 7:13AM (11/24/2008)
I love the A3 and want to replace my C230 with one when its lease is up. Our other car is a 2009 Jetta TDi, which my partner drive 100 miles a day to/from work averaging 42 MPG. The combination of the TDi and the A3 platform sounds great. However, with the A3 already serving a niche market for those who get the idea of a premium compact car, the A3 TDi would be a niche within a niche. I started looking at lease prices and found 1) all of the A3s on my dealer's lot were loaded 2.0T models with $36,000 stickers and 2) it is much less expensive to lease an A4. Perhaps an A4 TDi would make more sense for more people.
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downtoearth 7:25AM (11/24/2008)
First thing first, the A3 2.0TDI 140HP got only 32 points in the polution rank while the petrol A3 1.4TFSI 125HP received 48, out of 50 (source: ADAC Ecotest, 840 cars tested).
Secondly, the real life mileage of this car is
6,39 litres/100km~=36,8 miles per gallon
(source: Spritmonitor, 150 drivers, A3 2005-2008 diesel 100-105kW which picks up this 2.0TDI) while the much cleaner petrol will return
7,32 litres/100km~=32,1 miles per gallon
(source: Spritmonitor, 21 drivers, A3 2005-2008 90-92kW which picks 1.4TFSI).
Now equalize this data by dividing the MPG by energy content of the specific fuel (34,2MJ/litre for petrol, 37,3MJ/litre for diesel) and you get 0,93 for TFSI and 0,98 for TDI. That's the true energy efficiency advantage for the diesel. A bit poor, isn't it?
Petrol TFSI can be bough with 7-speed double clutch gearbox which slighlty decreases is consumption due to more gears and dry clutches. The diesel is only available with 6-speed double clutch gearbox which makes the MPG go a bit lower due to wet clutches (source: European ECE driving cycle of both cars).
Then obviously the diesel car is far more expensive to buy and it will be less reliable (extremely high pressure fuel pump, fragile injectors, double mass flywheel) and more expensive to maintain (more frequent and more expensive dealer checks). In Europe virtually equal prices of diesel and petrol make the TDI almost never pay off, in the US things will be even worse.
So why is Audi going to sell you the TDI instead of the truly cleaner and cheaper TFSI?
Well it's ruthlessly simple. Because they'll make more money of it. And it has this magic slightly higher MPG (not when you compare it to the small turbocharged petrol TFSI you'll never hear of). More polluting? That's customers problem after the purchase, not the car manufacturer. Less reliable? Well, guess who's gonna take care of this problem.
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montoym 10:19PM (11/24/2008)
The 7spd DSG is already making its way through the VW/Audi lineup. I have no doubt it will be offered with the TDI as well down the road.
Secondly, DI gas engines also use ultra-high pressure fuel pumps and similar injectors as their Common Rail Diesel counterparts. Claiming that the diesel ones are more prone to failure just shows your miseducation regarding DI engines which use very similar parts and ultra-high pressures as well.
Third, you are comparing engines not available in the US, understandably. I don't believe I'll ever see a 125hp 1.4L TFSI version of the A3 for sale here. 125hp would make it one of the least-powerful vehicles sold in the US with only a handful of economy cars below that. We only receive the 2.0T and 3.2L V6 versions currently. Looking at the US EPA ratings of the versions we do get, the 2.0L TDI would be the most fuel-efficient.
An '09 A3 FWD 2.0T with the 6spd DSG is rated at 24mpg combined through the EPA. My experience has been that for gas vehicles, the updated EPA guidelines are fairly acurate, at least for me and also lookign at the mileage of other owners. For instance, my car is rated at 24mpg combined as well and I am usually 1-2mpg above that but I also drive a bit more on the highway than the 55% estimate they use.
The closest diesel car we can use(since the A3 TDI is not here yet) is probably the VW Jetta Sportwagen with the same 2.0L TDI and the 6spd DSG.
Through the EPA, that combination is rated at 33mpg combined. Unlike the gas vehicles though, the EPA tends to underestimate the mileage of diesel vehicles and virtually any driver will have no problem easily beating the EPA ratings. For instance, many drivers of '09 Jettas with the new TDI engines are having no problem getting closer to 40mpg combined with their vehicles.
For the US market, the TDI engines will be an excellent option. Their increased torque gives the feeling of a larger engine(as we are accustomed to) without the mileage penalty. VW's TDI vehicles have always been big sellers when they are available and I have no doubt that the diesel offerings form other manufacturers will also find plenty of buyers when they are released here.
downtoearth 1:31PM (11/25/2008)
montoym said...
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The 7spd DSG is already making its way through the VW/Audi lineup. I have no doubt it will be offered with the TDI as well down the road.
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Differentiate between the DSG-7 for transversely (VW) and longitudinally (Audi) mounted engines, these are completely different gearboxes.
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Secondly, DI gas engines also use ultra-high pressure fuel pumps and similar injectors as their Common Rail Diesel counterparts. Claiming that the diesel ones are more prone to failure just shows your miseducation regarding DI engines which use very similar parts and ultra-high pressures as well.
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You're not only completely wrong but also annoying and I feel you're wasting my time.
Please do your homework. When you're finished, you'll realize that FSI petrol direct injection offers the pressure of 100 bar [1], turbocharged TFSI engines with direct injection from VWAG I was talking about had it boosted to 150 bar [2] while common rail diesels VW currently uses utilizes pressure of 1600-1800 bar [3]. It won't take long to find out that previous pump unit injectors used in TDI achieved 2000 bar, a number currently only offered by common rail V12 TDI in Audi Q7.
So modern diesels need a fuel pump delivering more or less 12 times higher pressure than petrol engines. Conclude for yourself.
To much more fuel quality-fragile injectors, fuel pump and double mass flywheel one need to add a variable geometry (vane) turbine which is a standard in any modern diesel but is simply not necessary in a petrol engine, only Porsche 911 Turbo utilizes it. Since the turbine inlet is placed right in the exhaust manifold it's exposed to soot which sooner or later is gonna clog it and make variable vane mechanism stuck. The particulate filter is far down the exhaust so it does not protect turbine.
This is why modern diesels are so much more expensive than petrol equivalents and break down much more frequently.
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Third, you are comparing engines not available in the US, understandably. I don't believe I'll ever see a 125hp 1.4L TFSI version of the A3 for sale here. 125hp would make it one of the least-powerful vehicles sold in the US with only a handful of economy cars below that.
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As if additional 15HP of the diesel made any significant difference...
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We only receive the 2.0T and 3.2L V6 versions currently. Looking at the US EPA ratings of the versions we do get, the 2.0L TDI would be the most fuel-efficient.
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I wasn't talking about 2.0T but about 1.4TFSI, with efficiency differences virtually nil.
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The closest diesel car we can use(since the A3 TDI is not here yet) is probably the VW Jetta Sportwagen with the same 2.0L TDI and the 6spd DSG.
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Which should be made available in the U.S with the 140HP and 170HP version of the same 1.4 petrol engine. Little worse MPG, much more power and speed offered.
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Through the EPA, that combination is rated at 33mpg combined. Unlike the gas vehicles though, the EPA tends to underestimate the mileage of diesel vehicles and virtually any driver will have no problem easily beating the EPA ratings. For instance, many drivers of '09 Jettas with the new TDI engines are having no problem getting closer to 40mpg combined with their vehicles.
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I provided you with real-life mileage and I'm not interested in unproven speculations. If anyone can drive a diesel and achieve higher than EPA MPG, same will happen with the petrol car.
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For the US market, the TDI engines will be an excellent option. Their increased torque gives the feeling of a larger engine(as we are accustomed to) without the mileage penalty.
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This is a feature of every forced induction engine. If you read the introduction of the Edmunds Insideline Audi A4 Avant 2.0T quattro long term test, you'll find an explanation why they haven't taken the 3.2 version. Reason? Because the smaller turbo felt just as quick and was more fuel efficient, which exactly proves my point. If it's not enough, find the RRI Rototest website and analyze power curves of any turbocharged petrol engine and a slightly bigger naturally aspirated one.
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VW's TDI vehicles have always been big sellers when they are available and I have no doubt that the diesel offerings form other manufacturers will also find plenty of buyers when they are released here.
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They were such strong sellers that VW decided to stop offering them in the U.S. Only now, after the hiatus, diesels have returned. So the reality exactly negates your point.
[1] http://www.atzonline.de/index.php;do=show/site=a4e/sid=139094117492c3ab09ff5f732894896/alloc=1/id=5078
[2] http://www.autobild.de/artikel/audi-a3-1.8-tfsi_58427.html
[3] http://www.autosieger.de/article2058.html
rob 7:41AM (11/24/2008)
A3s are the tiniest niche imaginable already. Few on the roads. Frankly, this makes no sense from a marketing point of view and, from the comments by downtoearth, the economics are lame, too.
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dcwf 12:11PM (11/24/2008)
For the US market, the A4 TDI makes a lot more sense than an A3 TDI (market share, competition with BMW, etc). Besides, didn't Audi already hinted to an A4 TDI several months ago? Having said that, if they were to bring the A3 with a diesel engine, I would be all over it.
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