Dodge reportedly delays light duty diesel for Ram
Just about a month ago, Chrysler's Frank Klegon confirmed that the light duty diesel engine for the Dodge Ram was moving towards production in 2010. Now, some reports are suggesting that the 5.0L V8 from Cummins may be delayed until 2011. With the current state of affairs in the auto industry and the recent announcement that Fiat and Chrysler were entering a strategic global alliance, we'd imagine that pretty much all of the Pentastar brand's plans have been shaken up a bit, including this one.
A little over a year ago, the future of smaller-displacement oil-burners for consumer-grade pickups was very bright, with Ford, GM and Dodge all announcing new diesel engines for their full-size trucks. Toyota and Nissan were also rumored to be matching their competitors. Since then, Ford has officially pulled the plug on its program and most of the others remain in doubt. Still, we are hoping that Dodge and GM pull through with their small diesels, which would make perfect complements to the hybrid drivetrains that are also forthcoming.
[Source: PickupTrucks.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jharlan 8:46PM (1/22/2009)
First one to market wins! It's at least 10 years overdue. My guess is Toyota will beat you to the punch, AGAIN!!
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rar 8:47AM (1/23/2009)
Realy, Toyota gave up on their Tundra diesel last year.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/07/toyota-president-confirms-tundra-diesel-shelved/
As for Ale getting 25+ mpg on a 1ton dodge. That's bs. The best you can expect under normal driving for a 3/4ton diesel from any make is high teens. It will depend upon your rear axel ratio, but most will be a couple of mpg better than the gas. I know, I have a 2500hd gas and I know several people with 3/4ton diesel and gas trucks of all makes. Most 3/4ton diesels get between 15-17 and most 3/4ton gas get between 13-15. You buy the diesel for the torque and the pulling power, not the mpg. Don, if they make a 30mpg diesel 1/2 truck, I would buy it too. Dream on.
jharlan 10:55AM (1/23/2009)
What the market wants is a light duty diesel in a light duty truck. I agree with your assessment on 3/4 ton trucks. I have a 1 ton powerstroke and I consistently get 17 MPG under light duty. My friend has a Dodge Cummins high output 2500 and he gets 15-16 MPG under light duty (no load). He owns a gas station so he doesn't drive as conservatively as I do.
Half ton trucks are now getting close to 20 MPG and I think it is not arguable that a small diesel could push that number up in the neighborhood of 25%. First one to market still wins, and apparently no one wants to win.
ale 8:41PM (1/22/2009)
Wonderful, now when we need our DOMESTIC automakers to pull through and PROVIDE VEHICLES WE!!!! WANT, they fail us, EVER-Y, SIN-GLE TIME! So I guess fuel economy standards don't matter no more, instead lets provide 6.2L V8 to everybody and lets ensure we keep the lowest technology possible in our base v8, 4.6L, who are they kidding. Our best friend Dodge now is letting us down, give me a break. We obviously dont need them anymore, let's close down every single factory and give it to the imports, no one buys AMERICAN anymore, what a joke! I thought we were trying to increase fuel economy not get worse. Toyota is no better anymore, they've become part of the problem. I have no problem with a 6.2L V8 or 5.7L dragger, but give us some options, a 30mpg diesel should one of them. If I can get 25-27 mpg in the big boy Cummins 3500, why can't I get a 30 mpg 400 lb-ft 1500! Answer me that Dodge, or is Fiat the authority now, don't they make diesels? Hybrid is not the answer for that application, or at least its current form, let's give some diesels a chance, they might ACTUALLY SELL!
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SteveO 9:34PM (2/12/2009)
Diesel does not always equal fuel economy. Since the 2007 EPA regulations required new Aftertreatment systems, diesel pickups dropped in fuel economy significantly.
Real world numbers:
2005 F-350 crew cab, short bed, 4x4 averaged 17 - 19 mpg.
2008 F-350 crew cab, short bed, 4x4 averaged 12 - 14 mpg.
The 2008 I drove was an early model, so they may have increased since I drove it, but those were the numbers I acheived.
When you couple that with higher initial cost, increased maintenence costs, increased weight, more expensive fuel, and reduced performance there really isn't an overall savings in a half ton.
Don 9:43PM (1/22/2009)
It's unfortunate that all that's available are 14mpg "Hemi" and a 15mpg 4.8L.
Ale is right, give me a 30mpg diesel and I'll buy it.
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ramsport47 7:52AM (1/23/2009)
Don:
First..the 2009 Ram 4.7L and 5.7L Hemi and rated at 20MPG highway, not 14 and 15.
Second...I hear (read) all of you say "if it was available with e diesel..I'd buy it". Well...the Grand Cherokee IS available with a diesel...and people don't buy them...why is that?
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Brn 10:59AM (1/23/2009)
The wonderful world of the internet. It's full of self proclaimed experts that claim to know what people will buy. Yet, when a company produces such products, they don't sell.
We need diesels. Jeep has had them for years, but it doesn't sell.
We need station wagons. Ford dropped them (quite recently) because they didn't sell.
We need European hatchbacks. The Astra doesn't sell.
We need Australian performance. The G8 doesn't sell.
. . .
Jesse 8:04AM (1/23/2009)
Regardless of the manufacture, the first 1/2 ton diesel to the market I'm buying.
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Mattias 11:18AM (1/23/2009)
They could just put the SOFIM engine under the hood. Yes 3 litres and 180hp might seem a bit low, but this engine already powers some quite heavy IVECO Dailys, vans you might get as a Sprinter replacement in N.A.
And if the four cylinders are not good enough for you, deriving a five cylinder version should not be a big deal.
BTW: In South America I have seen some Dodge Dakotas with the 2.5l 115hp VM Motori RA425. Dead slow but economical. Since VM is now owned by GM installing VM engines does not look like a good idea anymore.
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mroverlord 2:17PM (1/23/2009)
Jeep produced the CRD Jeep Liberty for one year before the newer emmissions rules kicked it. They sold every one they built, in very short order. My neighbors have one and love it.
Aside from loving to see a 4 to 5L Cummins in a half ton, I would love to see a small 3L V6 or I4 diesel in the Dakota and Wrangler.
Man, could you imagine the Jeep unlimited with a 300ft/lb I-4 CRD and a 6 spd manual? Awesome rock crawler.
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montoym 5:11PM (1/24/2009)
I've always wanted a diesel Wrangler as well.
I was selling Jeeps when Jeep had the Diesel Liberty and I loved driving those. Kind of slow initially, but once the turbo spooled up, they were somewhat peppy. Of course, I also live at 6000ft so anything with forced induction generally feels much more peppy than most N/A engines.
I really had high hopes that they would find a way to offer that 4cyl diesel in the Wranglers as well. Before I knew of the 6cyl M-B diesel GC, I somewhat hoped that the 4cyl diesel would even make it into the GC. I am much happier with the more modern, much more powerful Mercedes engine though. It really is better suited to the Grand Cherokee than a 140hp 4cyl diesel would have been.
Jeep is one brand that I think could benefit greatly from diesels across their lineup. Moreso than many other brands I think. SUVs just lend themselves to diesels and Jeep is chock full of SUVs(or crossovers if you wish).
Bill 5:14PM (1/23/2009)
Diesel price here in the U.S. comapred to unleaded gasoline makes diesel a non-starter for passenger vehicles and light trucks.
That's not going to change anytime soon.
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wxman 7:29PM (1/23/2009)
Bill - do you have any inside information about that?
It's my understanding that major oil companies are investing in more modern equipment that has greater flexibility in choosing between middle distillate (diesel fuel) and gasoline. At least one (Marathon expansion in Garyville, LA) is scheduled to go on line in 2009.
The price difference between gasoline and diesel fuel has actually closed in the last month or so, at a time when the price spread should be maximized because of heating oil demand in the NE US. I'm not convinced this current large price spread is a permanent condition.
montoym 5:22PM (1/24/2009)
I agree with wxman.
I the biggest reason for the price difference right now is the winter home heating oil demand. It just happened to hit right as demand for gasoline and oil prices were both plummeting dramatically. At that same time, demand for home heating oil rose(with the onset of winter) which caused the prices to go in somewhat different directions. Gasoline dropped like a rock and diesel dropped as well, but not nearly to the same extent due to being buoyed by home heating oil demand.
As we climb out of winter and into spring, you'll see relief in diesel prices. I fully expect to see diesel prices back around the levels they were at previously(before and during the increases over the summer). That is, around 15% higher than regular unleaded. I, of course, think it should be even closer to RUG, but recent history points to 15% or so being the norm.
ale 12:44PM (1/24/2009)
It's nice to see that alot of people have the same idea, i would love to see some Jeep stuff sprout up again; now the 25mpg is what ive seen from some truck owners, there is a pretty good spread between economy numbers. As these comments can suggest, I definately think that there is a good market for at least a 1/2 ton diesel, now i agree with you Brn that previous novelties havent sold, but I think the time is now for something like this, an ecoboost V6 is not gonna get to the CAFE standards alone...
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ale 2:27PM (1/24/2009)
The reason why people don't buy the Jeep Cherokee Diesel is because it doesn't good enough mileage to offset the cost of the engine, its a joke... 19 mpg combined, with about 22 reported. (4WD) 28-30 of the old 2.8L four cylinder should be the standard at least for the engine. I know that the engine is a Mercedes, but it gets better mileage in the bigger GL class than the Cherokee...I like what Jeep tried to do, but the engine needs to be better, bottom line.
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montoym 5:57PM (1/24/2009)
A few misunderstandings in your post.
First, the 2.8L 4cyl diesel offered in the Liberty never claimed 28-30mpg. The original Monroney sticker showed 21/26/23. Updated to the new figures, that changes to 19/24/21. Remeber that before '08, all vehicles attained better mileage than they do now using the current methods.
Considering that the GC diesel with a much higher tech, much more powerful engine(160hp vs 210 and a lot more torque), achieves 17/22/19, that's not bad for what it is. Especially considering that diesels are underestimated in the EPA ratings of late. The Grand Cherokee is also larger than the Liberty as well. Keep in mind also that both the GC and the Liberty were offered with the diesels only in 4wd trim(the Liberty CRD was only sold in '05 and '06 and the GC CRD is not offered for '09).
As far as the differences with the mileage compared to the M-B SUV's which use the same engine. That simply can be attributed to the difference in transmissions. The Jeep continues to use a 5spd auto while M-B fits their excellent 7spd gearbox to the diesels. That does only amount to about 1-2mph in most situations though. The diesel version of the GL320 scores 18/24/20 while the ML320 CDI scores 18/24/21. Recall that GC diesel scores 17/22/19, not far off.
So, your comment seems to be misdirected at the engine when in fact, it should be aimed at the transmission if nothing else. If Jeep were able to offer the same 7spd auto in the GC diesle as the M-B ones get, I don't doubt that it would achieve the best mileage of the 3. Even the similarly-sized ML320 is about 600-700lbs heavier than the GC(4300-4400lbs vs. 5000lbs).
ale 9:14AM (1/25/2009)
I had forgotten about the tranny difference, and is obviously the reason for the difference in mileage, but i dunno, I'd just expect more from a six cylinder, also the 28 mileage from the Liberty is reports of what some owners got under daily driving conditions and sounds about right. But my main point is that we need to utilize all of the technology available, and I think in retrospect the engine serves very well in the E class car, with ABG getting about 35-36. I guess that I'm just hopin for 26-28 to come out of an SUV, maybe when the perfect storm all comes together... I wonder how a mercedes four cylinder would do in a Wrangler or Liberty, finally 30?...
montoym 5:22PM (1/24/2009)
I agree with wxman.
I the biggest reason for the price difference right now is the winter home heating oil demand. It just happened to hit right as demand for gasoline and oil prices were both plummeting dramatically. At that same time, demand for home heating oil rose(with the onset of winter) which caused the prices to go in somewhat different directions. Gasoline dropped like a rock and diesel dropped as well, but not nearly to the same extent due to being buoyed by home heating oil demand.
As we climb out of winter and into spring, you'll see relief in diesel prices. I fully expect to see diesel prices back around the levels they were at previously(before and during the increases over the summer). That is, around 15% higher than regular unleaded. I, of course, think it should be even closer to RUG, but recent history points to 15% or so being the norm.
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