Dutch LPG giant expands to Germany
Benelux (made up of Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg) is one of the world's largest LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) markets. The most important distributor of this fuel in Benelux, BK-GAS, has announced plans to expand to Germany, after its successful move to France, Italy and Poland. The Dutch company will start its German operations in the North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany's largest LPG market. BK-GAS said it hopes to have 200 fueling stations there in the near future. LPG is also an oil derivative, but is considered an alternative fuel because it has fewer pollutants. It's also a subsidized fuel in many European countries. In Germany, LPG benefits from lower taxes, something that is guaranteed until 2018. It's estimated that the cost of an LPG conversion pays off in twelve months if you drive about 38,000 km (23,600 miles) per year.[Source: Auto-News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jharlan 11:56AM (2/17/2009)
We're paying $2.98/gal for propane without road tax for propane here in N Cal. I can guarantee you won't get the performance from LPG that you do from the heavier distillates. It makes no sense to convert here. You just get more push from carbon than you do from hydrogen.
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gorr 12:19PM (2/17/2009)
I said to put these kits on sale in canada but fill it with gazeous hydrogen for even more power and lower cost and no pollution. I don't want to miss an opportunity of increasing my engine power for few money while reducing fuel cost. If these folks pay their invesment in one year then just imagine how much time with hydrogen replacing north-america gasoline, a year or two because here gas is cheaper then in communist europe.
Then we can modyfied the engine further more when it is converted to hydrogen gas. Gasoline engines are hard to modified because of the limits of gasoline operations full of idiosynchasies, high cost(because of taxing) , slow burning, low octane, hard to ignite, non-recirculating, few expantion, low rev because of slow burning.
On the other hands, hydrogen ice can go up to 300 h.p quite easilly per liter of displacement.
So a 2 liters neon can climb to 600 h.p with turbos and water mist and hydrogen feeding. We been rob for years and years by car compagnies and they finnally deserve to die. Actually corrupts goverments driven by banks that own theirs debts are buying car manufacturers for cheap with citizens taxes to further extand the suffocating of drivers with gasoline and diesel fumes released everywhere on a daily basis while we still pay for that at the pump and on the income tax report.
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Joseph 12:38PM (2/17/2009)
Guys, why are we even discussing performance. Yes, it's true that you have less performance with LPG (slightly less). However, all cars have more than enough power to get you from A to B so who cares if you can go from 0-60 in 9 or in 10 seconds? Also, there's always a switch to return to gasonline while driving (because it's recommended to drive on gasoline every once in a while) so if you really need that 0-60 time in 9 seconds, push the button. If not, leave it be.
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jharlan 1:09PM (2/17/2009)
I really question the ability to get more energy /liter out of H2 than hydrocarbons with an ICE. I am not a scientist, but I am of the belief that more energy is available per liter in hydrocarbons than in H2. Am I wrong? It wouldn't be the first time, but I would like to know. ABG is a good teacher.
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GoodCheer 3:52PM (2/17/2009)
If you're down to taking gorr's word as a source if information, that's sad indeed.
I don't really know the answer, but I do know that to get the same power from hydrogen, you'd have to be spinning the engine much faster (because of the lower energy density that you mentioned). I also know that the usual limit to engine RPM is not fuel burn rate but the speed with which the valves can be opened and closed, so I'm going to guess that gorr is, as usual, just spewing.
harlanx6 10:19PM (2/17/2009)
Thanks Good Cheer:
My organic chemistry (in the 60s) taught me the energy (in BTU) in a fuel depended on the ratio of hydrogen to carbon atoms in the molecule. The longer chain hydrocarbons produced more power than the smaller chain hydrocarbons. Methane CH4 has a 4-1 ratio of hydrogen to carbon and stores less energy than propane C3H8. Octane C8H18 stores more energy per volume than butane C4H10. Gasoline as I understood it was a mixture mainly of pentane, hexane, heptane and octane. Diesel was a mixture of the 9- 14 carbon chain saturated paraffin series hydrocarbons and had an even higher ratio of carbon atoms to hydrogen atoms thus storing more chemical energy. That's why diesel is a better fuel. H2 is the weakest of the lot per volume. With this understanding some of the myths about H2 being perpetrated by those who don't understand the chemistry should be exposed. My memory isn't perfect so feel free to correct my errors.
gorr 9:52AM (2/21/2009)
I said that hydrogen ice are more efficient for h.p, cost less, and do not pollute. Stop arguing
and go in chrysler, ford, gm, nissan, toyota, honda, subaru, daihashu, learjet, caterpillar, freightliner, tony kart, lawn boy, brigg and stratton, bic, bmw dealerships and ask for a gazeous hydrogen ice car. If they don't have one, the saleman will ask his compagny to build some for keeping his job. I saw this trick in a jerry lewis movie of the 50's era, it's the consumer that drive and the rest are just employees... Don't buy anymore shit cars sold actually by big-oil ( gm, ford, chrysler, toyota, tata, byd, zenn, zap, tesla, prius, insight, tony karts, tucker, deloreen, detroit diesel, kawasaki trains and ships, mcdonnell douglass, lockheed guided missiles, messchersmith war planes, great western coal steam locomotives, malaysia jatropha oil and grease lubes,
harlanx6 11:08AM (2/21/2009)
Gorr, I think your founding premise that hydrogen ICE produces more horsepower is wrong. The part about the actual chemical reaction being cleaner is right.
gorr 1:41PM (2/24/2009)
I said that hydrogen ice engines are more powerful. It's in the speed of burning, the turbo pressure get be set much higher and water mist added to that provoke an increase of pressure into the combustion chamber without impeding the hydrogen to burn contrary to fossil fuels that is impeded to fully burn with water mist injection. The oil life is much longer too because there is no soot, dust, fumes. The pistons have a much easier life too because hydrogen with water mist injection run cooler. etc, etc. Much more to come when gm, toyota, freightliner, honda, ford, etc will dissapear and the entire world economy and social life will end in 6 month or so, then some tuner will build one and sell me that engine in a old corvette or dodge viper of 1300 h.p, then the world will become like the mad max II movie where everything was bassically destructed and the fews remaining alive will try to steal my car and i will have to run faster then them. A converted hummer can be more useful in a sociaty like this because of broken bridges, riots in streets, death trap along roads to steal flesh, broken asphalt, trees blocking roads, loose bums with guns, mines, lack of foods.
Just go to africa or afganistan to understand or even new-orleens or detroit or washinton.
You won't find gas or diesel in six months or so. Heresy like you never saw will appear and peoples will do stupid ceremonial popular court trials to everyone about carbon footprint where everyone is guilty of drinking water thus polluting rivers, lakes, and sea.
harlanx6 2:41PM (2/24/2009)
Gorr:
That's an apocalyptic view of the future, but it is certainly possible. I do foresee the possibility of hyperinflation destroying all currencies and barter taking it's place. After all, our money is only worth what we think it's worth. There is nothing to back it up. When we are spending our way out of this mess by printing monopoly money, how can our currency hold it's value?
When things get desperate, desperate people will do desperate things. What wouldn't we do to feed our families if the chips were down? It could set us back centuries. The rich, of course will be sequestered with the military guarding them from the unfed masses, hoping the military doesn't turn on them. I believe the government has plans in place to disarm the law abiding people, leaving us at the mercy of the most ruthless in our society.
If the destruction of our monetary system occurs, societal breakdown or even thermo-nuclear war is a possible scenario because this will now be a global phenomenon.
I am hoping it will be a gradual process in which a bottom is reached, then recovery can begin, but everything the government does has the capability of making things worse. In the worst scenarios, wealth could be a fatal disadvantage, and survival skills might just make the difference. .
The prepared will likely survive what may come, and the others may perish.