Nissan plans EV network where Americans actually stop
by Xavier Navarro on Mar 4th 2009 at 8:47AM 
The Nissan EV team may have been spending some time in Sweden. The automaker is thinking out loud about an EV charging network that takes into consideration where people actually stop their cars. The planned network for America may therefore include places such as fast-food restaurants and other roadside stops or even car dealers, which could offer recharging as a courtesy. Electricity at these posts would be paid using a credit card. With these chargers, a car could get up to 80 percent battery charge (enough for about 80 miles) in about 30 minutes, is Nissan's upcoming EVs, scheduled for 2012, perform as expected. The general layout of the planned network uses three types of charge points: home chargers in the garage; workplace charging, including parking lots and garages in downtown business areas; and a public infrastructure built around normal transportation areas like shopping malls, movie theaters, restaurants and airports.[Source: Automotive News (subs. req'd)]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Scott 8:54AM (3/04/2009)
Here's an idea. Put charging stations in gas stations. They are ideally placed near highways and people already stop there.
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paulwesterberg 9:33AM (3/04/2009)
Yes, but people dont like to hang out in gas stations(unless you are sellin). Also the gas station will be pissed if people park their cars and charge for 30-60 minutes and then pay $2-3 for their electricity.
A restaurant or retailer might have free charging stations in order to get people to stop and just increase prices a small amount to cover the electricity. People enjoy a meal or a movie and are good to go.
Gas stations eventually will need to be converted into cafe's or something else as real electric alternatives come on the market and the demand for expensive gas diminishes.
Carney 10:04AM (3/04/2009)
I think gas stations could provide a 5-10 minute charge which would be enough to turn off the EV equivalent of the fuel light, enough to get you home for your nightly recharge.
mister nomer 1:12PM (3/04/2009)
Friend of mine works at his family's gas station on weekends. He says that they don't make much money selling gas, even less if people pay with a credit card. Which makes sense when you stop and think about it, i.e. they're an independent station and have to buy the gas themselves from a supplier.
What they do make money on - he tells me - are liquor sales and cigarettes (it's kinda in a bad part of town). So, yeah, I totally see how this could be compatible with an EV charging station. And, no, I'm not joking. = )
Critter 9:26AM (3/04/2009)
Couldn't you recharge your electric car at Bloomingdales in nyc. . . about a hundred years ago?
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Stan Wellaway 9:49AM (3/04/2009)
Good to see Nissan thinking about ignoring gas stations. I've long argued that imaginative commercial enterprises (owners of malls, retail parks, cinemas/theatres, restaurants, motels) will see the sense in offering electricity, on a graduated discount related to shopping expenditures. And this will relieve local districts of the need to spend public money on such installations in those particular localities.
In the UK at present this hasn't happened much, and the recharge points are mainly streetside ones installed by local coucils using taxpayers' money. See http://www.elektromotive.com
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jharlan 10:51AM (3/04/2009)
I would bet Nissan will have a much faster charge rate capability before their EVs actually hit the showroom floor. 30 minutes is too slow.
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DasBoese 1:18PM (3/04/2009)
30 minutes is plenty fast for an EV. There are limits on how fast you can charge a battery without damaging it, aside from the issue of providing the necessary power.
RAN 11:59AM (3/04/2009)
30 minutes is only too slow when you're on the highway on a long trip. It's fine if you're eating in a restaurant, shopping in a mall, or going to see a movie.
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paulwesterberg 12:55PM (3/04/2009)
Even for long trips I would be willing to stop for 30 minutes to eat, stretch my legs etc.
dv 12:53PM (3/04/2009)
Retail outlets, shopping plazas & centers, movie theatres, public buildings (court house, town hall), marking meters, and public parks are all good places for charging stations. Gas stations are not.
Just remember, all these charging stations will have to be metered separately from the provider's main source in order for EVs to be share transportation taxes that (to date) is collected at the pump (gas tax). Even if this is not the case now, eventually it will come to that. Right now EVers avoid paying transportation taxes and even get incentives to own EVs while they still contribute to the regular wear and tear of our streets. Even solar charge stations (ideally found at rest areas along the highways) will have to charge a fee to cover the tax & infrastucture).
In my mind, we will end up with nothing more than a bunch of attendant free gas pump like structures popping up all over the place. Each with their own little RedBox like transaction center.
If the manufacturers get it right, they should start by installing them at their dealerships - designing any new facilities with this in mind.
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paulwesterberg 1:11PM (3/04/2009)
Most of the wear and tear on our streets comes from large trucks.
EVs are a fraction of the vehicles on the road. Small light EVs will be the only ones with a practical range, and they will do a fraction of the damage done by much heavier SUVs and trucks.
Dealerships with a large inventory of unsold vehicles are a thing of the past. When I can charge my car at home for pennies on the dollar, or at any convenient outlet(albeit slowly) why would I drive my shiny new EV to the dealer to charge it?
Charging stations should be in a place that people drive to on a daily or weekly basis, not a retailer that people visit once every 5-10 years.
richard in FLa 1:42PM (3/04/2009)
I agree with the dealership and any other business that wants an incentive to have customers come in. It's like that free cup of coffee. Come in, shop, charge your car. Of course, it wouldn't be for everybody. If you can charge at home, why would you go out of your way to any place to charge your car. But if you live in a condo, or apartment where a connection is not available, you could do your shopping and charge at the same time. The infrastructure for electric is everywhere. Gasoline distribution is much more complex with permitting and environmental concerns.
I'll be glad to have an EV that will curb my gasoline consumption and be able to stick it to terrorists funded by petrodollar rich countries. When solar panels become efficient enough to provide 30-40 miles of electric recharge to the EV, things will really take off. On second thought, why not make the roof of the car long enough to house enough solar panels? A van type would be great and utilitarian. Lots of roof space. Great for deliver companies as well. Of course toping off the charge if there was more mileage driven that day and a small bay to put a small transportable charger for longer trips.
dv 4:11PM (3/04/2009)
@paulwesterberg
I think you might be misunderstanding what I tried to say. First, I am well aware of how much damage is done on the streets and who is primarily responsible for it. But the fact of the matter is, the gasoline tax that every non-EV car owner pays right now is in place for the purpose of maintaining roads. Current and future EV owners will not be paying a transportation tax since they will not be purchasing gasoline. There will be people who have issue with that, regardless if it is the large trucks that do most of the damage. Therefore, I foresee EV charging stations needing to be metered exclusively so the government can apply a transportation/road tax accordingly.
Second, I was not suggesting that charge station only be placed at dealerships. In fact, I had already mentioned they should be wide spread by being placed in shopping areas, public parks, and more. I would assume most people would charge their vehicles at home, but in the absence of the universal charging technology or the cost barriers associated end consumers affording it, the automobile dealerships would be foolish not to have a charging station available to its customers, especially if it is a quick charge.
I do agree that stations should be placed in day to day settings, but I do not visit a gas station on a day to day basis but that is where I must go to fuel up. Now I understand that concept to be totally different from an EVers situation since the electricity infrastructure is far more integrated into our lives than the gasoline. The point is, people will go to specific areas to recharge should a limited number of places are available. In the beginning, it seems to be clear that a combination of EV sales and charging station locations will not jump to levels that have them popping up all over the places. Therefore, as the technology is adopted, I can see quick charge stations being installed in shopping centers, public parks, and dealerships (who need them anyway) while the more common method of charging will likely be the snail's approach via 110 or 220 outlets at home.
@richard in FLa
I agree with what you're saying. And unless an apartment or condo complex is going to implement their bulik charging station structure - i.e. per assigned spot - EVs are not likely going to be their first choice of vehicle, no more than not needing a minivan if you don't have kids.
As for solar charging, current technologies are not advanced enough to provide sufficient energy to recharge a car. It might be safe to assume that those who could take advantage of solar charging might be those apartment and condo dwellers. Tall buildings and parking garages will make it difficult for sun to find those roofs. If anything, I see the best application of solar power on and EV being used to control the interior temperature of the car - a small computer system the driver programs just like their home HVAC. If there is solar light/energy available and the battery level is a certain level, use the energy to keep an interior temperature of xx degrees. If the battery is below a certain level, the driver might choose to prioritize the energy to trickle charge the battery - to get that extra mile or so.
DasBoese 1:06PM (3/04/2009)
I'm not getting tired of saying it:
Every current and future EV maker developing and pushing their own charging systems and connectors is going to end in a catastrophe, no matter how fast, "smart" or convenient they are, they'll only piss people off and delay the introduction of a public charging infrastructure worth its name.
USE STANDARD HOUSEHOLD AND INDUSTRIAL CONNECTORS FFS. People are familiar with how to use them, they're cheap to implement (A 400V, 3-phase IEC 60309 socket, standard throughout Europe, costs ~1,50Euro at the hardware store) and flexible to use with whatever paying scheme you want.
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John 1:56PM (3/04/2009)
indeed, i believe i have seen something that Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is working on a standard for the market. it will need to be figured out before electrics can go mainstream and whats with the paddle chargers? what its too hard to plug in a normal electric cord? ok i can see it if it has a locking part to it to prevent somebody from taking it out or whatever... but still
DasBoese 4:07PM (3/04/2009)
My point was that we already HAVE standard electrical connectors that should be used. There's nothing to figure out here. Developing a new one is pointless.
It's like with the cellphone chargers: All the different connectors and voltages serve no other purpose than increasing the sales of cellphone chargers, and disencouraging customers to buy a different brand phone. The general effect on people is it pisses them off, so much actually that a number of countries have started making laws against it. China requires new cellphones be charged via a standard microUSB plug, and there are efforts underway to that end in Europe as well. It's a bit more difficult here because you know, Europe.
Luke 5:10PM (3/04/2009)
John @15,
Have you ever worked with a high-voltage high-amperage industrial-style power cord?
I've used up to L6-30 (220V at 30amps or 6600W), and a few even-bigger milspec three-phase power connectors that we use in datacenters. The plugs are clearly designed to be as safe as possible, but I still wouldn't have someone who doesn't have rudimentary electrician skills touching them. It's definitely not something that I'd have my mother work with.
While I would happily (and very carefully) plug an L6-30 in every day, those inductive paddle-chargers look at first glance like they'd be safe enough for normal people to use.
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Chris M 5:46PM (3/04/2009)
Brilliant idea. I can imagine pulling off the freeway at a roadside diner, parking in their "Park & Charge" lot, plugging in, then going in for lunch or a snack, coming back in an hour or so, ready for another 200 miles or so. I can imagine someone driving from San Jose to San Francisco, parking in a "park & Charge Garage", then going to see the sights, maybe visit a museum or take in a show, then have the car all ready and charged up for the drive back home.
Fast "10 minute charge", while nice, isn't really necessary, a "One Hour Charge" will do just fine.
The key is to get enough charging outlets so they're available almost anywhere, that means making them inexpensive enough to install dozens in a small parking lot, and hundreds at a major mall or parking garage.
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EV-1 9:47AM (3/05/2009)
Yeah. Infrastructure...
EV sales will benefit GREATLY from people seeing charging infrastructure growth.
As we all ( ? ) know already, over 80% of the population will never need any charging away from home anyway, but it shurely is comforting to know an abundance of convenient access-points are in place.
As for VERY FAST charging, the issue of that almighty heave of current needed to jolt several hundreds of kWh in just a few minutes (into a group of simultaneously recharging cars) is a real technical challenge.
And the batteries seem to hold off since it's now FOUR YEARS ( ! ) since Toshiba proudly announced their new super-LiIon batteries:
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm
Who knows what business-strategies and/or "block-buys" are going on behind closed doors . . . .
hm . . .
If anything, all this discussion about fast charging highlights the yankees' ailing paranoya before leasing or renting anything.
In this VERY fast changing phase, it's inconceivably stupid to go pay for such an expensive part as the battery pack: technology evolvement as well as price levels are persuasive arguments for a battery swap system. It would be a lot easier, and as fast or faster than anything thought-up so far. A system measuring how much energy you've actually used up would charge you fairly, and would'nt be complicated or hard to implement ( in the car ) .
Battery swap infrastructure would present numerous advantages as well as create jobs.
* Charging could be done in a more lenient way, at off-peak hour (cheaper), and OF COURSE with eco-friendly electricity.
* Sales of EVs would benefit significantly when customers don't have to personally BUY a battery pack that for now is very expensive, and on top of that most likely is outdated in just a couple of years.
Long distances SHALL be done by train !
Bring your personal EV to your destination on the train ( have it charged during the trip ),
and arrive sound and safe ! :)
Trains are VERY VERY important for the infrastructure - and the climate !
- = We Have To STOP Burning Things To Get Power ! = -
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