Better Place battery swapping plan comes under fire
Although many share the vision of ubiquitous infrastructure to support future fleets of electric vehicles, the concept of battery swapping, frequently championed by Better Place, doesn't seem to have the same appeal as the fast-charge station. In fact, in the past week, battery swapping has come under a bit of fire from different quarters. On one side of the globe, we have Mercedes' director of group research and car development, Thomas Weber, telling The Marker that not only is the swapping plan dangerous and could result in electrocution or fire, but that, "The industry has not even resolved matters as basic as the optimum location for an electric car's battery or the battery type." Ouch.
Meanwhile here in the States, the president of ECOtality, Johnathan Read, reeled off his own list of perceived problems with rival Better Place's battery swapping station concept. In an interview with the Cleantech Group during the launch of its EV Micro-Climate Working Group in Arizona he said, "It takes 10 or 15 minutes to fast charge, which isn't going to be much quicker or slower than swapping a battery, and certainly a lot less moving parts and potential points of failure. Let alone the capital costs required to build a battery swap infrastructure." He went on to make points about the speed of energy storage evolution and the difficulties of standardization. Of course, we're sure Better Place has already considered many of these points and is most likely in disagreement with the views of its critics. We would like to hear how they would respond but while we wait, feel free to leave your responses in the comments.
[Source: Haaretz / BusinessGreen.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Durelen 8:38AM (3/11/2009)
Provided you are talking about a single car and battery manufacturer, I am sure Better Place has an interesting concept.
I plan on my next car to be fully electric. The biggest expense in the car is the battery. I know how to care for batteries. My car will be parked in a garage at home and a parking deck at work (limiting temperature extremes).
Setting aside the unique method every manfacturer will have for placing batteries in their cars and the unique configuration every vehicle will have to maximize battery space and enhance range, I would not exchange my battery due to the unknown quality of the battery I would receive. The idea of exchanging my nice new battery or well cared for battery for one that sat in Death Valley for a week in the summer is rather unappealing.
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Lad 11:05AM (3/11/2009)
Don't forget that if you go with BP, the care of the battery is their responsibility since you are in effect renting the battery; this idea of swapping out batteries has many advantages, including updating your battery as the technology advances. For example, if they bring out a battery with a 300 mile range, that upgrade could be installed by the battery swapping station. In effect BP is in the business of selling electrons!
Some people feel an affinity to caring for their own battery, in that case, BP might not satisfy that need. In my case, I don't care to spend the time to worry about the minutia of keeping my electrons comfortable.
Inna 11:07AM (3/13/2009)
Under the Better Place model, you are not supposed to own the battery, you are leasing it from the Better Place
Matt 9:12AM (3/11/2009)
Our current fuel pumps have multiple grades of fuel. Why couldn't a battery swapping station hold multiple sizes or varieties of batteries? Furthermore, how is swapping a battery more dangerous than handling a high voltage wire? The battery can be safely disconnected inside the swapping unit before the user ever touches it, and a similar setup can be had on the vehicle. My concern would lie more with the life of any given battery. Am I getting a full charge for my payment? How do I really know? Will they be cycled out as they loose storage capacity or become damaged? Maybe a subscription or mileage based payment would be appropriate, that way you're just paying for what you use. Should a battery fail a support service would need to be available.
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Ackbar 10:26AM (3/11/2009)
The quality of the swapped battery would be my main concern. What if they swap my good battery for a lower-grade or older battery that holds less charge, thus reducing my milage to the next swap? It would be in the best interest of a firm like this to require frequent swaps or to charge you more for batteries that last longer.
Another consideration is theft of the battery itself. If future vehicles are made so that the electric motor battery be easy to swap, would this make it a hot theft item? An easy to swap lithium-ion battery pack would be worth a lot, at least for awhile.
Still, I think services like this might be in demand, especially in dense urban environments like NYC, where most urban drivers won't have access to an outlet to recharge their batteries.
DaveD 5:49PM (3/11/2009)
It's a simple numbers game.
Option 1: Swapping Batteries
How much money would you have to spend to buy all the different types of batteries that manufacturers are going to try for the next 5 years? Different sizes, shapes, voltages, currents, charge rates, power levels, energy densities, etc etc etc. Think about the thousands and thousands of cars that come into a gas station every day. Now imagine that you have to have to have not only batteries for those cars, but all the different types of batteries they may need in your inventory!
How do you get the capital to buy and store all these batteries? How do you swap them and recharge them (which means you'll have to do the rapid charge part of the infrastructure anyway!
Then consider that each manufacturer is placing the battery in a different place in the car. Each "PBP" station will need the equipment to physically swap the batteries...do you think people want to try and haul around hundreds of pounds of batteries? Nope, will take equipment to do that. What if a manufacturer wants to place the batteries low and inside the frame of the car for performance reasons. Look at where the Tesla puts it's batteries and then look at the Chevy Volt. Do you think the manufacturers will agree on a single car design to handle battery placement to help PBP?
Option 2: Rapid Charging
A rapid charging station with the ability to provide rapid charging if needed and a standard software interface that your car uses to communicate with the charger about how quickly its battery can safely be charged.
One wire...all cars.
You're getting ready to start building out an EV infrastructure: Which sounds more practical to you?
Chris M 5:51PM (3/11/2009)
It is necessary to keep an inventory of batteries at each swapping station, sufficient to handle any reasonable demand. Each additional type of battery would increase the inventory requirements, adding to the inventory cost.
No, from a financial standpoint, this swapping scheme works best with just one type of battery, but if it was designed right it could work with multiple types of vehicles. A modular design would allow the use of 1 or 2 modules for a subcompact, 3 or 4 for a midsize car, 5 or more for larger vehicles. Also, a rectangular prism cased battery pack could be mounted either horizontally for "under-floor" designs or mounted vertically for front or rear "tank" designs.
Matt 6:04PM (3/11/2009)
Every car has a gas tank in the same place for safety reasons, all cars have tires in generally the same places for practicality reasons, why not batteries? Is is so far fetched that a standard could be made? I think not. Besides, you're trying to think of this as if people do not keep inventories with multiple items in virtually every store in the world. Go to an auto parts store just about anywhere and I bet you can find your car's fuel filter, your car's rubber hoses, etc. Do you really think it impossible to keep just a few different batteries? One point that is valid is that it would be expensive at first, but what if your EV didn't have to come with a battery at all? That would knock a few grand off the initial purchase price and you could pay for the fuel just the same as you did with your fossil fuel vehicle because the battery recharge company would amortize the cost of the battery for you, likely still beating the cost of gasoline mile for mile. Maybe what we really need is options, rather than a set standard, that way people would choose the way that fits them best and everyone can join in on the EV fun.
DaveD 6:18PM (3/11/2009)
I understand what you guys are saying, there may be ways to make this work if you just standardize X, Y and Z. But I don't understand why you would go to all the trouble of dealing with the constraints when a fairly cheap and easy solution exists.
In both cases, you do need the rapid charger (either to charge the cars in real time, or to charge the batteries so you can have them ready for the next car).
So if you need the rapid charging capability anyway, why bother with the rest of it? I just don't get the logic.
Also, the gas tank placement is not really standard. Some cars put it on the left, some on the right. Some more towards the front, some more towards the back...or even in completely different places for large trucks compared to cars where it may be on both sides of the vehicle! Why does this work? For the simple reason that you have a flexible hose which can hook to any point in the vehicle.
Why wouldn't you do the same thing with a flexible wire for the battery charger?
What problem are we trying to solve? I thought we just wanted the car to more electrons in it again...why not do that the easiest, cheapest way possible?
I'm willing to be convinced but I just don't get it. It seems like a lot of money and effort to try and do all this to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
Matt 9:14AM (3/11/2009)
high voltage wire = quick recharge station
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BDP 9:29AM (3/11/2009)
Infrastructure costs are huge and make battery swapping a very bad idea. Besides why limit vehicles to one type and size and shape of the battery. An suv type vehicle will allow for a much larger battery vs. a sports car or mall compact type. A simple cord and charging station can be universally developed and cheaply implemented thus serving all vehicles. KISS- Keep It Simple STUPID!!!
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Rich 10:04AM (3/11/2009)
Battery swapping looks like a safer option than filling your car with gasoline. A single spark and many people will die if you make a mistake with gasoline.
There are many rules, laws and regulations for gasoline. It's all been standardized. Why not make a safe standard for batteries and battery swapping?
Don't be afraid of the future.
Infrastructure costs? Battery racks. Battery lift.
It costs >$50k to put gasoline storage tanks in the ground. And you face an environmental disaster if the tanks leak.
To me - batteries win out over gasoline.
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Luke 10:11AM (3/11/2009)
I think this post is spot on. While there is much to admire about Better Place's model, it is betting on technological stagnation. The battery swapping model could be obsolete soon (if it isn't already - based on the remarks from Jonathan Reed, quoted in this post).
I've written more about this over at the Innoblog: http://www.innosight.com/blog/277-is-better-places-approach-to-electric-cars-really-a-better-way.html
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randomdude 10:41AM (3/11/2009)
Some months ago I heard a lecture about Lithium-Ion-Battery-Technology by Prof. Winter from the WWU Münster. Apparently he has quite a big name in the field of battery research, at least here in Europe.
After the lecture he was asked about Project Better place and he pointed out some flaws:
1. Lithium-Ion-Batteries don't like sun and they'll never forget. (applies to Israel in particular)
2. Could work in a small country. But e.g. Germany/Austria: in the winter when people go on holiday in Austria in order to go skiing, you'll need many batteries in the alps, but you won't during the summer time. -> Logistical problem.
3. What if you swap a newer battery for an older one. The car might or will perform worse. What will average Joe say? He might want to have a better battery.
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paulwesterberg 11:38AM (3/11/2009)
In Germany when you go on holiday you can ride on the established networked of trains that quickly transport you to Switzerland where they have a network of alpine cogwheel trains and gondolas that transport you to the high mountain villages.
A network of High speed trains with slower local trains connect most European towns and makes long distance car travel irrelevent. You can travel by car, but it takes longer and parking is often difficult.
jzj 11:00AM (3/11/2009)
1. PB owns and leases the battery. This means that: a. The cost of the battery -- by far the most expensive component of the vehicle -- is PB's problem, not yours; b. The quality of the battery is PB's problem, not yours; c. Advances in battery technology allow PB to improve the battery that you use, and you are not stuck with superceded battery technology.
2. The whole battery-swap concept is a great overstatement of PB's principle intent, which is to free people from the perception and rare occasional reality that a BEV has limited range. PB understands the much more common need for charging infrastructure, and is already creating one and developing others.
3. OEM standardization of battery pack size, location, and connectivity will or will not happen and PB cannot mandate that outcome, but standardization makes sense regardless of PB so that there is non-propriety competition between manufacturers of cars and battery packs.
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paulwesterberg 12:29PM (3/11/2009)
4. PB is about making money by locking you into a multi-year contract with a high monthly fee but low up front costs like the way that cell phone companies make obscene profits.
I would rather pay for an extended warranty or battery insurance directly. I would rather charge at home, the grocery store, the restaurant, or the cinema. I want to avoid stopping at gas stations and I don't want to enable another soul sucking leach on our economy.
Randy C. 12:07PM (3/11/2009)
I was listening to an interview with Darrell Dickey on http://www.evcast.com and he points out a problem project Better Place. It is conceivable that you would have to have 2 to 3 expensive battery packs for every car on the road. This is to make sure that the logistics of having enough batteries in the right place at the right time. A major sporting event for example, might cause a bunch of the drivers to head in the same direction depleting the pack supply along the way.
My take is the cars would ALL have to have the same design. Cars are built around their power plants whether it is electricity or petroleum. In order to swap batteries they all will have to be the same forcing the cars to be all the same to carry them. No one car design will work for everyone since no two families are exactly the same like your neighbor has 4 kids while you only have 2 so a 4 seat sedan wont work for your neighbor. 2 different pack designs would exponentially add to the number of expensive battery packs that have to be built.
AS for electrical safety various interlocks can be designed into the packs to make them safe enough to handle outside of the car. Connectors that automatically mate when the battery is inserted in the car. Covers that slide in place as the battery is extracted. Relays that interrupt the current path while the pack isn't being used etc.
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Chris M 6:22PM (3/11/2009)
No, it wouldn't require that all cars have the same design. To begin, some will opt out of the battery swapping setup. Plug-in hybrids wouldn't need it, longer-range EVs could do just fine without it, and swapping would be silly in a slow speed NEV.
Even EVs designed for battery swapping could have a lot of options, with various numbers of standard battery modules for different size vehicles and performance requirements, and the battery modules could be mounted vertically or horizontally in front, or rear, or under the floor. Of course, the body design would be entirely independent, limited only by the size and layout constraints to make it legal for highway use, and basic aerodynamics.
Doug 12:39PM (3/11/2009)
A battery swap infrastructure is just too expensive for too little benefit right now and runs the risk of quickly becoming obsolete.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again here:
Let the early adopters get their BEVs and PHEVs (REEVs, etc) for which home charging eliminates the "chicken and egg" problem, and gas stations eliminate the range problem.
Build parking meter style charging stations (both 120 and 240 V), scaling roll out with demand. When building new parking structures, pay the incremental cost of supplying power near the parking spots so that charging stations can be easily added as needed.
Implement the greater than 100 kW charging and the battery swaps within competitive racing, where their use is more appropriate and the engineering cycles are faster. Let that refined technology filter to the masses when/if it becomes more technologically and economically sensible.
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