Honda changes course and switches from diesel back to hybrid
A few years back after getting the hybrid ball rolling with the original Insight and then Civic, Honda added a hybrid version of the Accord. Like the Insight, it was not a strong seller and, after a few years, it was discontinued and Honda decided to switch its focus for larger vehicles to clean diesel. The plan was to keep hybrids in smaller cars and while using oil burners in larger cars, SUVs and vans. Honda had planned to start its U.S. diesel push with a 2.2-liter four in the TSX this year. However, after diesel prices spiked last year and the overall market collapsed in the fall, that program was canceled.
Honda CEO Takeo Fukui has now revealed that plans for larger diesel engines have also been canceled as a result of the cost of trying to meet new U.S. and Japanese emissions regulations. Honda had hoped that its in-house developed NOx catalytic convertor would allow it to avoid using urea injection. Instead, Fukui said the company will develop a hybrid system suitable for larger vehicles. No timetable has been revealed for introduction.
Fukui also said that Honda would not drop the price of the Insight in response to Toyota's price cuts on the Prius in Japan.
[Source: Automotive News - sub req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jharlan 3:24PM (4/03/2009)
Big mistake, Takeo. A diesel hybrid would get Prius mileage in a full sized car, or 80 MPG in an insight. Strategic planning is critical. Bad decision! I see a change in leadership coming because Honda won't tolerate blunders like this. Your board of directors is going to love seeing VWs, Audis and Beemers selling like hotcakes in Japan!
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s10 4:17PM (4/03/2009)
I'm sorry but you're soo wrong. Diesel Hybrids are way to expensive to be commercially successful. VW had plans for Diesel Hybrids and dropped them. Only for trucks the Diesel Hybrid combination is viable (like the ones Toyota offers in Japan).
harlanx6 4:37PM (4/03/2009)
It all depends on the price of fuel.
paulwesterberg 5:45PM (4/03/2009)
Diesel is more efficient because the fuel contains more energy. The problem is that to refine a good deal of diesel you need light sweet crude and supplies of high grade crude will become increasingly scarce. It is easy to make gasoline out of sour heavy crude which remains more plentiful because it is harder to refine.
Sam Abuelsamid 6:02PM (4/03/2009)
Not true. Diesel fuel does contain about 15 more energy per volumetric unit. However, the Diesel combustion cycle is inherently more efficient than the Otto cycle by about 30-40 percent. That's due to a number of factors including the lack of a throttle, and the high compression ratio. Factoring out the 15 percent extra carbon in diesel fuel, a compression ignition engine typically emits about 25-30 percent less carbon dioxide than a spark ignition engine of similar output.
harlanx6 7:49PM (4/03/2009)
Thanks Sam, great blog!
Noz 9:30PM (4/03/2009)
Yes Sam...but producing diesel also consumes more crude. How does that factor into emissions and overall MPGs?
Sam Abuelsamid 9:41PM (4/03/2009)
No it doesn't. It takes the same amount of crude to produce a gallon of diesel or a gallon of gasoline. On top of that it takes less energy and refining to produce diesel even with the processing necessary to get ultra low sulfur.
Throwback 3:40PM (4/03/2009)
Too bad, I have read nothing but glowing reviews of Honda's 2.2L Turbo diesel in the Euro mags. It was developed by the engineer who developed their VTEC engines.
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gorr 4:11PM (4/03/2009)
This compagny is a flop. Switching to clean diesel, LOL, clean diesel doesn't exist, it's the worst thing. Then going back to hybrid... LOL, hybrid don't sell well and cost a lot to build and represent a danger for the warranty. Diesel-hybrid, LOL, diesel cost more and hybrid cost more, so why pay 10 000$-20 000$ more just to save fuel and still be not green at all because of the soot and toxic particulate of diesel and pollution of batteries and pollution to charge the battery with dirty electricity made from coal.
I said and i repeat to sell hydrogen gas cars for cheap without fuel cost and no pollution. All the peoples opposing this will do like rick wagonneer, they will end-up in the bottom of the dirty sink.
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Gordio 5:19PM (4/03/2009)
have you looked up where hydrogen comes from, or how it's made? like i told you to?
you need to burn gasoline to make hydrogen fuel.
paulwesterberg 5:47PM (4/03/2009)
Actually most "cheap" hydrogen comes from reformulated natural gas.
This is why the oil companies loves them some hydrogen - it keeps them in control of the supply & distribution of transportation fuel.
Lad 4:18PM (4/03/2009)
Actually this appears to be a smart move by Honda; looking ahead, they have the same vision that many of us have: The mild hybrid as an interim solution before battery plug-ins take to the roads. Further development of complicated diesels and their emission controls could very well be lost capital when companies like Nissan, Ford and others intend to leapfrog past the considerations of car diesels as an viable interim or long-term product. IMO, diesel engines and their emission controls are expensive and offer little advantages as the ICE of choice in hybrids or single engine autos
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jharlan 4:35PM (4/03/2009)
There is a healthy variety of opinion here. I guess we'll have to let the market decide. Time will tell. In business, the stakes are high. The 2012 winners are not necessarily the 2020 winners. For the next few years, small turbo diesels look very good. There is room for technical improvement. Direct injection engines look good. EVs are going to be making steady inroads for the environments that favor them first, and then who knows. By 2080 possibly HFCVs may start to be cost effective. I'm not likely to live that long, so I'll take a diesel or an EV..
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PeterG 4:47PM (4/03/2009)
I am not a Diesel head, but this is really too bad. It it looking like it will only be VW in the Diesel game under $30K. A lot of people would prefer to just stay away from VW. Good news for VW, they get the Diesel niche pretty much to themselves.
I can understand not wanting to invest in pollution controls for what will be a small niche in North America, but it does seem a little short sighted to base any decision on momentary blips in fuel prices in the crazy year we have had.
Aren't Diesel prices back near RUG prices now? Does anyone have a crystal ball about where they will stabilize?
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~D. 4:54PM (4/03/2009)
Honda has fallen far. While still better than many of the US companies, their heyday looks to have passed, which is a terrible shame. They used to be an engineers' company; a mainstream automaker whose participation in F1 actually WASN'T ironic. Double wishbone suspensions and VTEC engines used to bring excitement into the life of what was for all intents (and insurance purposes) were economy hatchbacks and small sedans & coupes. The NSX, while handsomely bland, was the halo for a company based on bringing performance technology to the common man. The sunsetting (and subsequent cancellation of replacement) for their halo cars, their exit from F1, and the steady blanding of their vehicles inside & out has seen the steady mortgaging of their reputation. While there are still signs of life here and there (and still a dedicated customer base and good name,) it seems with this decision that the soul-less suits are winning out at Honda. A diesel lineup would have been perfect for giving good fuel economy, while still not being a penalty purchase. The Europeans know this, and as a TDI owner, I know this. They would have had the market to themselves for a brief period of time (before Subaru gets theirs to market,) just like they did with the Insight (which they took a loss on, but whose principal ultimately won over buyers.) It looks like Subaru is quickly supplanting them as the sportier of the sensible Japanese automakers.
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EVdriver 5:06PM (4/03/2009)
Diesel is dead end (it would lead us even more lung cancer and stuff).
Thank God Honda has finally realized that.
HEV, PHEV and BEV, these are the real solutions. (and of course hydrogen is for mental patients only :)
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Gordio 5:21PM (4/03/2009)
Well, clean diesel is supposed to get rid of those cancer pollutants. For a diesel to be alllowed in california, it must at least be as clean as a dirty gasoline car.
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Architeuthis 6:39PM (4/03/2009)
Compared to gasoline, diesel will have higher NOx (bad)
Compared to diesel, gasoline will have higher PM, CO, VOC, and CO2 (bad)
It's a matter of picking your poison.
Snowdog 8:08PM (4/03/2009)
Diesel also has higher PM, that is why they are building finer Particulate filters, that need to go into a burn cycle every once in a while to burn of the accumulated particulates.
Nox and PM are the most harmful compounds and you get more of them from diesel.