Automakers and utilities reach agreement on plug-standard
Just days after General Motors put out the call to settle on a plug standard for electric vehicles, it appears that an agreement has been reached - in Europe at least. The plug design will be unveiled at a German technology fair on Monday by energy company RWE. The plug design uses three prongs and will support charging at up to 400V. For starters, Volkswagen, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Fiat, Toyota and Mitsubishi have all agreed to the new standard. It's not clear at this time if the same plug standard will be adopted by the task force working on the SAE J1772 standard. That group will be meeting this week in Detroit during the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress. We'll be meeting with some of the representatives this week and we'll have more news on the standards situation.
[Source: Physorg]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Eletruk 4:42PM (4/20/2009)
If the plug uses 3 prongs as the article states, then it can't be compatible with J1772. One of the pins in J1772 is strictly for vehicle to charger communication.
I wonder if the plug allows for 3 phase power, because that was one of the issues the Europeans had with J1772, it that is was single phase AC. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the real specs are.
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Gerald 5:12PM (4/20/2009)
Whether this needs three phase power would be very interesting. I'm currently trying to decide what kind of electrical outlet I'll have in my garage. No EV ordered, but I just want to be ready for the future and I need power for the garage door anyway :-)
Are there any suggestions on what would be a future proof (european, if that matters) electrical outlet ? I didn't find much when I was searching the web a few days ago...
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BrandonIT 5:35PM (4/20/2009)
IMHO, the plug itself is not nearly as important as having the appropriate number of wires running to the outlet in your garage.
I would have at least 4 wires (maybe even 5) of heavy-gauge wire (30 Amp or above) run to the outlet in your garage from the breaker box area of your house. You may only need 3 right now for a simple 110V single-phase outlet but should you get the "rapid charge" feature on your car you can always add the additional wires for extra phases.
The actual plug doesn't matter so much since an electrician (or yourself if you have the skill) can change a plug out in no time as long as the wires are capable of handling the load the outlet is rated for.
Electrical standards change but, just as in networking, having more wires is always better for future-proofing...
Just my 2 cents.
Gerald 5:47PM (4/20/2009)
@ Brandon IT
Thank you for your insights. But for the same overall cable diameter, I'll get more usable wire diameter if I choose a 3-wire (220V) cable over the 5-wire (400V 3-phase) cable :-)
I'm not sure how big the diameter of the cable can be as this is a shared underground garage and it must fit in the existing cable channels - so I may be limited by the overall cable diameter...
What I was wondering, mostly, is: Is it likely that 3-phase power will be a good thing for chargers, I mean considering that batteries don't want ANY phase at all :-) ?
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Chris M 11:24PM (4/20/2009)
Um, 110/220 split phase has 4 wires: 2 hot (opposite phase), 1 neutral, 1 ground.
480 volt 3 phase delta wired also has 4 wires: 3 hot (3 offset phases), 1 ground.
480 volt 3 phase Wye wired has 5 wires: 3 hot (3 offset phases), 1 neutral, 1 ground.
With 3 hot wires and higher voltage, 3 phase can transmit more power.
deaf 6:37PM (4/20/2009)
Why are they standardizing the plug in system without the leader, Tesla Motors? ridiculous.
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brn 7:06PM (4/20/2009)
Both Ford and Toyota have sold several times more EVs than Tesla.
jake 12:45PM (4/21/2009)
Tesla so far hasn't been a big backer on standardizing because they are developing faster charging than the J1772 can handle.
@brn
Toyota & Ford has leased more cars than Tesla, but if you count the sold vehicles: Toyota only sold 328 RAV4 EVs. The number leased was 1575, the ones they didn't sell were crushed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
Ford sold only a handful of Ranger EVs. The number leased was 1500, the ones they didn't sell were crushed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV
Ford made 1005 Think vehicles, but they only had a top speed of 55mph, & a range of 52.8miles, probably not crash tested. None were sold, pretty much all were crushed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_City
Tesla, I believe, is approaching 400 Roadsters. They have already overtaken the sold numbers of RAV4EVs & the Ranger EVs. Next year they are probably going to overtake the lease numbers.
Evie 9:44PM (4/20/2009)
Actually Toyota has sold in excess of 1 million hybrids, Ford in excess of 100k, Tesla has actually delivered somewhere around 300
That should clear that up
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jake 12:47PM (4/21/2009)
Those hybrids are not BEVs nor PHEVs, you can't plug them in; didn't the hybrid makers work very hard to make that point ;)
That means they are irrelevant in the discussion of a charging cable. You have to be talking about BEVs or PHEVs for the discussion to make sense.
paulwesterberg 10:25PM (4/20/2009)
They should have a usb or fiber optic connector on the cable so the car can communicate with the charger.
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DaveD 10:41PM (4/20/2009)
This is a very important step. I'm sure that they have a separate prong or fiber optic or SOMETHING for communication between the car and the charger because you can't just dump power in with no thought for what the battery is capable of handling.
They would be too smart to leave something that important out of the spec.
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Chris M 11:33PM (4/20/2009)
To begin with, actual charge control should be handled by the car itself, as there will be variations in battery type and size and voltage. The charge outlet need only provide the requested current and voltage.
Secondly, it is possible to run communications through the power lines, there is even a home network arrangement that works through standard electrical outlets. Since it wouldn't need broadband speeds just to send simple ID and charging info, it would be relatively easy to implement.
Fiber optic wouldn't be very reliable in a dusty dirty outdoor environment.
DaveD 7:19PM (4/21/2009)
Good point Chris, I hadn't thought about the fiber optics getting dirty in this environment but that would most likely be a problem. I had thought about using the power circuits for communications as well but wasn't sure if that would be more or less complex to implement than a separate line for information exchange.
As long as the car/battery mgt system is able to communicate it's limits and power reqt's to the charger, I'm happy.