AFS Trinity brings "150 mpg" plug-in hybrids to Capitol Hill for some sweet stimulus cash
AFS Trinity prototype SUV - Click above for high-res gallery
You all remember AFS Trinity, right? They're the group that can't say "150 mpg" too many times. Back in January, AFS Trinity applied for a some of the $2.5 billion loans that the DOE was handing out through the advanced technology vehicle program in order to purchase and retool an existing but closed auto plant. AFS representatives were in Washington, D.C. recently showing off their modified Saturn VUE plug-in hybrids to Congresspeople and their staff members, giving them a chance to see the 16 kWh lithium battery packs and ultracapacitors in action. This is at least the second time that the AFS Trinity vehicles have made an appearance in D.C., good news for fans of the company and their idea to blend the two energy storage systems. From the sound of it, a blogger for the New York Times was able to check out the PHEVs in person, but didn't write anything about a test ride. We can learn from the article that AFS Trinity hopes to get $40 million from the DOE for starters. This would be enough for 100 cars. The second step would be $200 million for a thousand more vehicles. Finally, AFS Trinity CEO Edward Furia told the NYT, $1.3 billion would be used to retool an old GM plant and build "hundreds of thousands of plug-in hybrids" that could be sold for just $8,000 more than the non-hybrid versions.
[Source: NYT]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
BCD 12:52PM (4/29/2009)
This sounds like complete bs. The cost per vehicle at the 1000 car level is $200,000 per, but after they have a plant, they will be able to produce the vehicles for around $30,000 (or whatever a Vue + $8,000 costs). Supposedly the $8,000 covers the 16 KWhr battery pack, control electronics, and ultra capacitor system. I am guessing batteries would need to be around $200/KWhr or less by the time the time the control electronics and other equipment is added.
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paulwesterberg 1:57PM (4/29/2009)
I hope they have a backup chassis in mind, the Saturn Vue is about to be discontinued.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/27/gm-ends-saturn-brand-in-restructuring-phev-vue-we-hardly-knew/
paulwesterberg 2:00PM (4/29/2009)
They should switch to the rav4, as it is the most efficient SUV platform.
David Michael 2:36PM (4/29/2009)
@paulwesterberg the toyota rav4 is not the most fuel efficient suv platform
BoneHeadOtto 10:02PM (4/29/2009)
@David Michael
Im with paul here. The Rav-4 is the best platform. 22/28 is about as efficient as non-hybrid midsize CUVs get. Plus the amazing v6 with 267hp gets 19/27 without requiring premium. No other CUV comes close in terms of power to efficiency.
Rav4 22/28
Escape 20/28
Crv 4 cylinder is 20/27
Tucson 20/26
Tiguan 18/24
Equinox 17/24
Edge 17/24
CX-7 17/23
RDX 17/22
...
Im searching but im not finding a more efficient CUV.
steve 1:28PM (4/29/2009)
150mpg is just more BS.
As noted in the earlier ABG posting, its not really 150mpg, but a combination of a 40 mile all electric range, and 20mpg when running on gas. You can take those two basic numbers and play around with them however you want to end up with any "effective" mpg value you want.
At one end of the range, on a 400 mile continuous journey you would get 40 miles of all electric power, then 360 miles on gas at 20 mpg to use a total of 18 gallons of gas and end up with just 22.2 mpg for "highway" use. :(
At the other end, if you never drive more than 40 miles, you never use ANY gas, and get infinite mpg :)
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PeterG 1:38PM (4/29/2009)
+1
What he said.
downtoearth 2:55PM (4/29/2009)
steve:
> 150mpg is just more BS.
It isn't.
> As noted in the earlier ABG posting, its not really 150mpg,
> but a combination of a 40 mile all electric range, and 20mpg
> when running on gas.
True that.
> You can take those two basic numbers and play around with
> them however you want to end up with any "effective" mpg value you want.
You can, but you don't
You simply use statistics and estimate an average driving pattern most of car owners fall into. It turns out then plug-in hybrid all electric range will either be 100% enough for daily trips with very occasional long journey excluded or they will exceed the battery capacity by a very little bit.
Add all that together and you'll get 150 MPG over, say, a year of service.
> At one end of the range, on a 400 mile
> continuous journey you would get 40 miles
> of all electric power, then 360 miles on gas at
> 20 mpg to use a total of 18 gallons of gas and
> end up with just 22.2 mpg for "highway" use. :(
Exactly right. And this unimpressive performance will be a part of 150 overall MPG.
Tohe 10:55PM (4/29/2009)
I understand the general driving patterns used to figure out mpg. But, one concern I have about Hybrids is that people won't be as proactive to plug in, as they would if they were to drive pure EVs. People are likely to rely more on gas than they would otherwise, specially if gas demand dramatically lowers as well as its price. As you can see, an scenario like this would defy your current calculations and pollution projections for PHEVs.
Jim Bullis 5:25PM (4/29/2009)
Why does everyone not find this 150 MPG stuff insulting?
Stating performance in a manner that suggests the company is using customary terminology, but actually is complete gibberish is the height of deceptive advertising.
It could just as well be 300 MPG or 3000 MPG depending on the ratio of electric only to gasoline only operation.
Add this to the hall of shame that now includes the Fisker, the plug-in Hummer, the Bright (announced as a spinoff by Rocky Mountain Institute), the Nissan plug-in and the entire 100+MPG Prius campaign by Calcars.
I keep telling these folks that a bald lie turns into criminal fraud when it serves to make money.
Why a big deal? As I perceive it, this is the kind of thing that enabled our financial system to bilk the investors of the world out of $4 Trillion. "Sure" they said, "there are high grade mortgages in this bundle we have set up for you." "Snicker snicker, ok maybe there are also a few, ok maybe we threw in lots of loans not worth the paper they are written on. We call these sub-prime to make it sound a bit better. And of course housing prices allways go up so all this will turn out just fine."
So now we have 150 MPG. Says AFS Trinity, "That is 150 miles on gasoline with a glob or two of electric energy thrown in, but why should we have to count that?"
Of course we know that these folks are religious since they use Trinity, from "God in three persons, blessed trinity, in their name. So obviously it is all honest. I bet they are specially open to investment from others of like religion, you know, in their little club.
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Chris M 7:57PM (4/29/2009)
I'm leery of anyone who uses religion as part of their business marketing. There is a long list of scammers that used a righteous facade to cover up their misdeeds, to appear "honest" when in reality they were anything but honest.
Jim Bullis 12:22AM (4/30/2009)
Chris M. The Trinity name might be just the name of some organization, but it struck me as wierd too.
Snowdog 8:11PM (4/29/2009)
Allow me to Join the chorus of boos.
I feel insulted by every company that stoops to this level of misrepresentation.
Let me clear, I stop reading any more about the merits of the product when they reveal themselves (AFS Trinity in this case) to be "lying sacks of excrement" from the get go with these bogus claims.
Consider this misrepresentation the ultimate bad word of mouth from the enthusiasts who will realize what you are doing. Enthusiasts tend to be the people go to when deciding on new cars (I helped sell two Mazda 3s in the last 6 months).
If one on my friends asked about one of these "100MPG+" plug ins, I would tell them to run away as they are scamming you right of the bat.
EPA needs to get its act in gear, and get the rules in order and make it clear this BS won't fly.
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John 12:14AM (4/30/2009)
You guys make me laugh!!
It clearly gets 150MPG!
It just uses a big rig to haul it for the first 130 miles : )
ROFLOL
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Jim Bullis 12:27AM (4/30/2009)
That would fit also.
Maybe they just have a long down hill to coast the first 130 miles.
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Buddy Eldorado 3:59PM (5/25/2009)
When they get an electric car that runs on 5 "D cell" batteries please let me know... Meanwhile I'm going to go to sleep for the next 20 years. When I wake up I expect
the "D cell" automobile to be a fact not fiction. (:-) (:-)
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