Lexus preparing a Prius-based premium subcompact for Europe
According to Top Gear, Lexus plans to debut a new hatchback at the upcoming Frankfurt Motor Show that will be available exclusively as a hybrid. The new car would be related to the HS 250h, albeit designed specifically for European markets, and would reportedly be a bit shorter than its American platform-mate to fit in premium subcompact segment that's popular across the pond and currently full of 4-cylinder diesels. Andy Pfeiffenberger, Lexus chief in Europe, explains:
"Our hybrid saloons are going up against the V8 diesels in Europe. In the future we need to compete against the four-cylinder diesels. So we will enter new sectors with low-displacement hybrids. The C-premium [i.e. Audi A3] segment is the fastest growing segment and we must be in it."According to TG, the hatch is likely to go on sale in late 2010 and be priced below the IS diesel.
Gallery: Lexus HS 250h
[Source: Top Gear]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jharlan 7:51PM (5/08/2009)
The Japanese against the Germans and the French. This will be interesting. Competition makes everyone better.
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Jacob 9:15PM (5/08/2009)
I'd take this over the HS anyday.
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Steve 4:23AM (5/09/2009)
The Prius was essentially a flop in Europe. No one could figure out why they should get one when they can buy a diesel that gets 1-1/2 times the mileage at half the price. I predict this will be an even bigger flop. Unlike the American public, the European motoring public doesn't have extra money to waste on a completely impractical 'green image'.
So, Toyota's solution is to release a badge engineered hybrid that gets even worse mileage at a higher price?? The French and the Germans have nothing to worry about. This will be an even bigger failure than the Prius.
Toyota may know how to convince senior citizens in Florida to buy soulless road appliances, but they have no idea how to appeal to a continent full of people who actually care about handling dynamics and value efficiency. Even Ford is smashing Toyota in the European market.
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Swede 6:30AM (5/09/2009)
Correct, Prius only works as a company car for people working in the city, for them various tax reductions make a electric hybrid profitable. Selling a Prius to a normal consumer is almost impossible, too expensive and it runs on the wrong kind of fuel.
Toyota is a small seller in Europe, only 183469 vehicles sold during the first three months of the year, far away from their mainstream competitors (VAG sold nearly 400k). Premium brand Audi and Mercedes sell almost as many cars as Toyota does. Toyotas do not stack up well enough in the driving dynamics and creature comforts department while they charge excessive premiums for their long term reliability, which is irrelevant to a new car buyer anyway.
downtoearth 10:04AM (5/09/2009)
Steve 4:23AM (5/09/2009):
> The Prius was essentially a flop in Europe. No one could
> figure out why they should get one when they can buy a
> diesel that gets 1-1/2 times the mileage at half the price.
What if you actually stop lying? No comparable diesel car in Europe gets as high mileage as the Prius returns.
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/die_sparsamsten_autos.html
See that? These are real life results. Diesels that get the same mileage as Prius are usually underpowered microcars like Fiesta/Polo/Yaris with worse performance (say 0-60 in ~12 or 13 seconds). Meanwhile, the Prius has same wheelbase as Volkswagen Passat and similar interior volume.
> I predict this will be an even bigger flop. Unlike the American public
>, the European motoring public doesn't have extra money to waste
> on a completely impractical 'green image'.
Americans are way, way smarter than Europeans which are also heavily brainwashed by their motoring press which belongs nearly entirely to Germans (Motor Presse Stuttgard and Axel Pringer own the majority of titles) and defecates on hybrids every time they can, while praising their inefficient, inferior diesels.
Not only they permanently falsify the true fuel economy of hybrids, as seen here....
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/eco/spar-vergleich-toyota-prius-oder-vw-golf-876789.html
Auto Motor und Sport lies that Prius does 6,7 l/100 km (35 MPG). Sadly, the Spritmonitor link above points to an AVERAGE consumption from over 600 Prius users being 5,23 l/100km (45 MPG), exactly what about 700 users in the U.S posted (46 MPG, source: fueleconomy.gov shared MPG).
... they also hide true total costs of ownership of complex, unreliable diesels and how dirty these cars are:
TOTAL costs of ownership - 5 years:
Honda Civic Hybrid:_________ $28,359 [2]
Toyota Prius II:____________ $29,669 [1]
VW Jetta 2.0 gas:___________ $30,451 [3]
VW Jetta 180HP gas turbo:___ $33,859 [5]
VW Jetta 1.9 TDI DIESEL:____ $34,305 [4]
EPA Air Pollution Score (the higher the better):
Toyota Prius II:____________8 out of 10
Honda Civic Hybrid:_________6 out of 10
VW Jetta 2.0 gas:___________6 out of 10
VW Jetta 1.9 TDI DIESEL:____1 out of 10
VW Jetta 180HP gas turbo:___not available
0-60 times:
VW Jetta 1.8 Turbo gas: ____7.7 sec (180HP)[10]
VW Jetta 2.0 gas____________~10.5 sec
Toyota Prius II:____________10.9 sec [12]
Honda Civic Hybrid:_________12.4 sec [12]
Vw Jetta 1.9 TDI____________14.9 sec (90 HP) [11]
Source: Comments under Autobloggreen "VW launches TDI Truth & Dare with coffee filter test" article
> So, Toyota's solution is to release a badge engineered hybrid
What's wrong with badge engineering? Volkswagen sells 200.000 units of a rebadged Golf, called Audi A3, with the same engines and equipment for 30% more than the Golf itself. Customers love paying for the brand sticker in Europe.
> Toyota may know how to convince senior citizens in Florida
> to buy soulless road appliances,
Yawn.
> but they have no idea how to appeal to a continent
> full of people who actually care about handling dynamics
ROTFL! Especially those horrid clatterboxes like Volkswagen BlueMotion series pump-unit diesels with skinny low resistance tires and 0-60 time of about 13seconds are to be meant as cars with proper handling dynamics.
> and value efficiency
That is Toyota true mistake. They are selling the Prius almost loaded. You can only add leather seats and maybe one or two other option.
Configure a Jetta with the at least 110HP TDI diesel, an automatic gearbox and all the stuff Prius comes as standard and you get nearly the same price. I checked this in Germany, Switzerland and Denmark. The difference was less than EUR 1000.
But Europeans don't understand this rocket science. They only check the sticker price, the lower it is, the better the car. How much it comes with as standard is irrelevant, thus such widespread opinion that Prius is "very expensive" when compared to other cars.
The next thing absolutely beyond European comprehension is how dirty their inefficient diesels are. Check the ADAC EcoTEST results, sorted by pollution rating. You may find it very interesting:
http://adac-ecotest.awardspace.biz/
But then again, German motoring press is working heavily on slow Euro brains. Nearly every test of a diesel car with a particulate filter comes with permanent repeating of the word "sauber", which means "clean". Then all these tests are translated and spread along over the continent and so goes the propaganda.
Finally, Europeans are incapable of understanding what scientists say. The paper "Impact of the increasing automotive diesel consumption in the EU" by European Commission Joint Research Center states it clearly that Euro refineries are out of balance and producing too much diesel which requires energy-sucking conversions. This is neatly confirmed by another report entitled "Well to wheel analysis of future automotive fuels and powertrains in the European context" which calculates it requires more fossil energy to provide a unit of energy as diesel than as gasoline.
But Eurodummies don't get this. Years of lower taxation of diesel fuel and heavy brainwashing made them watertight to any other option. As Swede said, hybrids run the wrong fuel.
Why do you thing diesels in cars haven't fired up in the U.S or in Asia? Well, smarter nations simply don't buy it.
slk23 12:48PM (5/09/2009)
downtoearth:
You seem to have a lot of time on your hands... have you tried long walks, painting, or bird-watching?
PeterM 2:28PM (5/09/2009)
Well written DownToEarth, I am a 'European' have spent years in Germany and now live in Belgium, I bought a Prius (after having driven three successive LandCruisers, a BWM three Volkswagens and assorted other brands), and whilst I am not brainwashed, it did take me several months of Prius drving before I fully appreciated how spectacular the Prius really is.. yeah yeah the design is not everyones cup of tea.. but I know what I am driving.
Anything European does not have half the kit of the fully equipped PRIUS. Add all the goodies and most Euro cars will, just as you say, cost the same.
The PRIUS beats everything hands down in the same and lower catagories. It consistantly uses 5-5.2 Litres per 100km, even at highway speeds which are much higher than US highway speeds. It doesnt make much noise in the city, and none at stop lights.
Better still no matter how well tuned a diesel engine is it can never compete with the the PRIUS as it produces NO noxious fumes of ANY SORT whatsoever when running on batteries, which it does even at highway speeds when it is maintaining speed (under cruise control for example - of course the ICE cuts in from time to time as well).
Most people have the message here, you get the jokes about the 'battery car' but they get it and everyone is interested.
Diesel engines are quiet torquy and efficient. but not as quiet and not as clean as regular fuel cars.
As to Toyota producing road appliances for the older Florida set.. I would suggest you come see whats on the road here before saying that.. Every other car is either an Audi a BMW or something from the VAG group.. with that many generic European cars in sight, my PRIUS looks positively exotic!!
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Steve 2:57PM (5/09/2009)
Downtoearth, Prius sales numbers in Europe don't support your long-winded fairy tale.
Additionally, both the Mini Cooper D and Volkwagon Polo TDI get 60+ mpg to Prius's 45. The Mini Cooper D is cheaper, faster, and gets better mileage than the Prius. It also has the same CO2 emissions. There is simply no good reason to get a Prius in Europe, as there are plenty of better small/midsize cars for buyers to chose from.
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Swede 8:42AM (5/10/2009)
downtoearths arrogance does no favours to his cause, even if that cause is simply trolling.
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AriFerrari 12:19PM (5/11/2009)
It's interesting to see how this community views the value of hybrids. To me, hybrids seem like a short-term fix. And when considering mpg, and cost vs. benefit of hybrids vs. diesel, diesel wins for me except for doing very short city commutes. Then if you throw design into the equation (call me vain, I love beautiful cars), the mini takes the cake vs. the Prius. Hands down. I want a no-compromise solution - beautiful, efficient, low-no emissions and I still want to have fun driving.
The Prius is an influential vehicle and started a movement in upping the game in cleaner car tech (even if it was mainly perceived). What is this Lexus for? Won't this simply cannibalize the sales of the Prius?
Twitter: @LM_Ari
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