VIDEO: Elon Musk misrepresents Chevy Volt performance, Tesla getting few new orders for Roadster
Click above to watch the video after the break
In a recent interview discussing Tesla Motors, CEO Elon Musk didn't really reveal much new information, although he did manage to misrepresent the performance capability of the Chevy Volt, again. He refers to the Volt's range extender as a "lawn mower engine" and says highway performance "will be anemic." While the Volt will no doubt feel anemic next to a Roadster, the reality is that the 160-horsepower electric motor will provide more than adequate performance for almost anyone's needs and should accelerate to 60 mph in about 8.5-9 seconds.
There's plenty more from the hour-and-a-half-long video interview to dissect, including bits about batteries and the high cost of electric vehicles. Check it all out after the jump.
Even when the Chevy Volt's battery pack reaches "depletion" point, it will still have a 30% charge left. The range extender only has an output of 100 horsepower, so it cannot provide full performance on its own. However, the battery can be depleted below the 30% depletion point to meet transient acceleration requirements when necessary. Cars are rarely used to their full performance potential all the time, so the range extender will be able to restore the battery to the 30% level.
Musk also discussed the Roadster and its cost. He of course emphasized that Roadster owners can get tax credits that bring the base price down just below $100,000. Musk compares this against similar performing cars from Porsche and others, which is valid, but he erroneously brings up gas guzzler taxes. While Ferraris, Lamborghinis and a number of Mercedes-Benz high performance vehicles are subject to gas guzzler taxes, no 2009 model year Porsche falls into that category.
Finally, Musk again brings up the backlog of Roadster orders. While Tesla officials generally decline to discuss cancellations other than to acknowledge that there have been some, Musk again mentions that the Roadster is sold out until November 2009, which is the same number he has been quoting for at least six months. That implies that even though the company is now selling cars in Europe and there have undoubtedly been new orders, those numbers have not outpaced cancellations. Given those slow new sales of the Roadster, it's no wonder the company is pushing orders of the Model S so hard.
[Source: Fora.tv]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mark 8:22PM (5/11/2009)
I think Tesla should be giving credit to the volt as they are working to the same goal, and not really are competitors.
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stevejust 8:32PM (5/11/2009)
I can't speak for Elon Musk, but I think this is where he's coming from: he didn't really want to start a car company. It's no doubt a pain in the rear and a potential money pit for him. What he wanted was an electric car, and because the auto industry that's generally about to go bankrupt wasn't providing what a very smart number of sophisticated and wealthy silicone valley types wanted, he caved in to the old, "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself" aphorism.
I can totally understand his resentment toward GM. I have a lot of resentment towards them, but unlike Musk, I didn't actually do anything constructive with it.
mister nomer 10:12PM (5/11/2009)
stevejust: "I can totally understand his resentment toward GM. I have a lot of resentment towards them, but unlike Musk, I didn't actually do anything constructive with it."
How is Elon being constructive?
Elon ran off founder Martin Eberhardt, threw several members of the management team under the bus, called a NYT reporter a "douchebag", and now has twice grossly misrepresented GM's Volt.
Of all people perpetual gaffe machine ("God love 'im") Joe Biden described very eloquently this same situation last fall:
"What do you talk about when you have nothing to say? You talk about the other guy."
Elon is a bully and trying to cover for the fact that his company really doesn't have much good news these days.
And, disappointingly enough, it seems to be working.
jpm 10:12PM (5/11/2009)
@Mark. Mr. Musk wasn't bashing the company. He stated his reasons for not doing a plug in hybrid and even said he could be wrong. He was simply calling things like he saw them -- the GM is losing boat loads of money and is about to fail.
@stevejust. Your statements baffle me. Tesla announced the model S as a sucessor to the roadster when the company first started. They also plan to make an even cheaper model. Saying Tesla is making fancy cars exclusively for rich silicon valley guys is narrow minded. They also break the golf-cart EV sterotype. They also get bigger margins to be profitable. The plan makes a lot of sense.
Secondly, Mr. Musk was making candid, realistic remarks about GM. He wasn't slandering them or spreading false rumors.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:19AM (5/12/2009)
jpm:
Musk would sure know how to recognize a car company that is losing boat loads of money and about to fail.
Tesla makes one car, and it is $120,000. They are making cars only for rich Silicon Valley types.
They may have a $57,000 car in a few years, by which point a $57,000 electric car may not even be remarkable.
Tohe 3:01AM (5/12/2009)
@why not the LS2LS7?
"They may have a $57,000 car in a few years, by which point a $57,000 electric car may not even be remarkable."
Are you sure about this? I see no other proposition that comes close to the Model S, and you have to admit that Tesla has a head start, both in building their brand and developing their technology. I wouldn't be so quick to write them off.
The problem with Tesla Motors is the wait! They don't have the capacity to mass produce their cars and this is hurting them. No excited customer wants to wait 1 year+ to take delivery. Funding can solve this, in the mean time .....
Detroit can't compete with Tesla because it lacks the taste level to tackle the luxury market. Even if Tesla Motors builds a $20,000 car, it will appeal to a different market than Detroit's.
kert 4:29AM (5/12/2009)
"I see no other proposition that comes close to the Model S, and you have to admit that Tesla has a head start,"
Actually, there are several companies that can and will give Model S a run for its money, and there are companies that have been building up technology for far longer time than Tesla has been around. Mitsubishi has been prototyping electrics for a decade now, with first production model shipping this year, Subaru is not far behind. Then there are Optimal Energy Joule, Pininfarina/Bollore B0, Th!nk, Fisker etc. The models shown right now might not fit the Model S luxury sedan niche precisely, but those are nevertheless designed as highway-capable proper passenger cars with long range.
By the time Model S ships, there will be certainly followups from the other companies.
Tohe 9:15AM (5/12/2009)
@kert
A- We have been discussing American vehicles, the domestic market was the premise of my comment.
B - None of the companies you mentioned have the same focus as Tesla. Most of the brands you mentioned don't even lend themselves to the luxury market.
stevejust 2:09PM (5/12/2009)
@jpm
I don't know why you say my statements baffle you. I wasn't criticizing Tesla's model at all. I never said Tesla intends on making fancy cars exclusively for rich silicon valley guys for all time. But it is true that people like the Google founders looked around and said, wait, I have all the money in the world, why is no one making a car I'd like to drive? That’s where Tesla came from, from a desire of a handful of mostly tech-wealthy guys to have a decent electric car.
I have a Fisker Karma on order. I am excited about the Model S, and would much rather spend $49k than $89k on a car. But when you get down to it, I ride my bicycle to work most days. Yesterday as I was leaving work, I could easily have been hit by a black Tesla Roadster turning onto Dwight Way from the parking garage in between Rodeo and Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills as I was turning right from the alley way next to the garage. I see Teslas fairly regularly these days here in Beverly Hills—more often than I see any Ford GT40s or any Nissan GTRs. And you have to understand for a point of reference, I see even Bugatti Veyrons and Ferrari Enzos around my office from time to time because of where my office is located.
Ultimately, here’s why I didn’t buy a Roadster and opted for the Fisker: when I do drive, which isn’t nearly every day, I often drive down to San Diego from LA, or up to Big Sur or Sequoia National Park. I can’t do those trips easily in a car that requires I plug it in every 230 miles or so. I can do those trips in a plug-in hybrid, though, with the range extension granted by an ICE. So I disagree a bit with Elon on his dig, and also believe it could be directed at Fisker as well as the Volt, which some commentators have picked up on.
dwarg 10:12PM (5/11/2009)
I think this may fall into the category of turnabout is fair play. For years Detroit, and GM in particular, went around misrepresenting the performance of fuel efficient vehicles and trying to create an atmosphere where trying to be efficient was somehow effeminate or even un-American. Now they want to switch sides and they're getting a taste of what they've been dishing out all these years.
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Matt 8:42AM (5/12/2009)
I think it's just the way that Elon comes off... I mean, I have never once thought to myself "huh, that's a genuinely nice person who has something constructive to say." I'm sure he's a good guy, and I know he has great ideas, but Elon needs a PR coach. Most of the time I see him speak and think, "what a douchbag." And the funny thing is, I thought that before he actually did call that reporter a douchbag. As for GM, he just needs to stop talking about it; just say something bland and move on. Do Zero execs say bad things about Honda's vaporware bike? No! Leave well enough alone and do your thing to the best of your abilities. In the words of my pizza man, "be cool".
jharlan 10:54PM (5/11/2009)
Character aside, what Tesla has done is provide the world with 2 great electric cars, absolutely the finest in the industry up to now, and that is a remarkable accomplishment. Musk is still in the fight of his life, because breaking into the auto industry without billions in your account is rough, and these are not the best of times for industry, and most don't make it.
Back to the character issue, musk has said and done some things that make me wonder "what was he thinking"?
Still the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, 2 great looking EVs, pricey, but with good performance and decent range speak for themselves.
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why not the LS2LS7? 2:12AM (5/12/2009)
1 electric car!
The other is vaporware.
And if you had seen the inside, I can't imagine how you'd call it the best in the industry anyway. It's completely unfinished.
Matt 8:45AM (5/12/2009)
One small note, Musk actually does have Billions... I think the video said he sold Ebay for like, 1.2 Billion. Not to mention his other companies, Paypal, etc. I think he has Tesla Motors as a hobby; just because he can.
harlanx6 9:42AM (5/12/2009)
Thanks, Matt. I had forgotten his past accomplishments. I think he wisely is risking other people's money in this venture to the extent that he can, and his end game is likely an IPO or he'll sell the company outright and go on to something else.
There is no way I would ever own a Tesla, but if money was no object, they are beautiful cars. The future success of Tesla is no sure thing, but EVs are going to succeed, and the intense competition in this segment is going to quickly provide better, cheaper cars.
I have to give Musk credit for actually bringing desirable cars to market.
shopa 11:04PM (5/11/2009)
When the Volt's battery runs down to 30% of its
charge, a 1.4 liter gasoline engine turns on and
keeps the battery at that 30% charge level.
This means that the 1.4 liter engine is the only
source of power for the car. When I compare the
weight of the Volt to a much lighter Honda Fit
(using F=ma), I estimate that the Volt will take
16 seconds to go from 0 to 60 mph when in this mode.
This is very slow, and will not satisfy American
drivers getting onto a highway.
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amfan12 11:27PM (5/11/2009)
Here is where you are wrong. Even when the battery is run down to 30%, that reserve is there for acceleration. The electric motor can still deliver full output for acceleration. That why they only let you drain it down to 30%.
UH2L 11:41PM (5/11/2009)
Shopa,
You don't know what you're talking about. Electric motors propel the Volt and they have max torque at 0 rpm and it decreases linearly as rpm increases. That is exactly why the Tesla accelerates so quickly. The IC engine on the Volt does not directly power the car, it only charges the batteries. Yes, the Volt carries the extra weight of the range extending engine, but it probably has less battery weight to carry around. So, I'm betting that the Volt will accelerate competitively against the Fit.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:16AM (5/12/2009)
shopa:
You are incorrect.
The batteries and the gas engine become the power source.
Lutz explained that once you get the battery down to 30%, you still can accelerate at full bore because the computer will allow the battery to go below 30% for short periods of acceleration.
The generator only needs to be as powerful as the average power output, not as powerful as the peak power output.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 0-60 isn't much better than 16 seconds even with the battery full. This isn't a sports car.
Snowdog 11:23PM (5/11/2009)
It is a complete unknown how the Volt will behave after you exhaust it's initial EV range. Chevy hasn't yet let anyone drive one with the Range Extender active.
Also, from what I read it has about 70HP available from the range extender Gen set, not 100 HP.
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