Toyota apparently not giving up on fuel cells, may move it up to 2014
Toyota Highlander FCV - Click above for a high-res image gallery
Toyota has one of the most advanced hydrogen fuel cell programs in the world and has publicly demonstrated its efficiency and durability by driving it from Alaska to Vancouver British Columbia in the fall of 2007. Since that time, Toyota has indicated that it would start series production of fuel cell vehicles by 2015. Now, it appears that zero emissions vehicle standards in California and other states may prompt the automaker to pull ahead fuel cell production to 2014.
Apparently, the California rules give more ZEV credits for fuel cell vehicles than for plug-in hybrids, which Toyota plans to introduce in 2011. Toyota's plans are evidently not being affected by the elimination of federal government funding for fuel cell vehicles. It will be interesting to see if Toyota migrates its fuel cell vehicles to more of a range-extended EV approach where a battery provides primary propulsion power with the fuel cell operating at constant output to maintain the battery charge level.
Gallery: LA 2007: Toyota Highlander Fuel Cell
[Source: New York Times]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
gorr 1:13PM (5/13/2009)
Till 2014 do not buy any toyota products and do not buy any products from associated car compagnies like ferraris, aston-martin, gm, ford, mercedes, bmw, volkwagen, daihashu, nissan, peugeot, etc. If they say now that they will be ready in 2014 it's because they already know how to produce cheap and non-polluting hydrogen cars but are waiting at the expences of consumers and taxpayers money and suffocating peoples in the bioshere that wall streets traders, exxon, shell, chevron, u.s.a-japan-europeens politicians give them some more peanuts till that we dies.
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paul34 2:43PM (5/13/2009)
Yes, exactly, gorr. It's all a conspiracy to steal your collection of Star Wars action figures.
gorr 10:05AM (5/15/2009)
It's me that have started this trend of ordering in advance through internet blogs, to order the car that fit your needs. Look at the market since the last 5 years, Consumers have adopted my trends, have rejected normal gasoline/diesel fuel burning pumping conventionnal polluting and limp cars like porsches, vipers, ferraris, corvettes, malibu, dodge rams, etc.
Actual producers of cars have gathered behind secrets banking system gimmicks of subsidies and regulations to fool the consumers and sell inneficient and costly sh*t cars and consumers have stop their expenditures at the dealership but are robs with their taxmoney bills.
New start-up compagnies have been bought by the same system and consumers don't want their faulty products.
Tons of madscientists and bloggers and journalists have been hired by goverments to spread all kind of fears abouth cars including real alternative cars.
Just me and tons of potential consumers are waiting for a water-powered car to go see in dealership soon.
Richard 1:42PM (5/13/2009)
Producing the cars is easy. Relatively speaking. Solving the hydrogen distribution system is very, very difficult.
We already have an electrical distribution system that works moderately well. Beefing that up while maintaining a smaller, more consolidated gas/diesel (ie: standard pressure liquid) distribution system for long hauls is far, far easier than creating a completely new system (whether we're talking about changing out battery packs or distributing hydrogen). Remember that there are currently around 130,000 gas stations in the country; if we don't reduce the need for them, we're talking about converting them all. And that's a lot of work!
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required 2:40PM (5/13/2009)
Direct-ethanol fuel cells (as I mentioned below) tackle your distribution (both storage and infrastructure) issue well.
augustus 3:55PM (5/13/2009)
"Producing the cars is easy. Relatively speaking. Solving the hydrogen distribution system is very, very difficult."
Mostly it is an issue of locating refueling stations and the capital investment that this involves. If the Fed is serious then they can always offer tax credits for building these stations.
"We already have an electrical distribution system that works moderately well. Beefing that up while maintaining a smaller, more consolidated gas/diesel (ie: standard pressure liquid) distribution system for long hauls is far, far easier than creating a completely new system (whether we're talking about changing out battery packs or distributing hydrogen)."
I'm skeptical that the power grid can be beefed up to handle a massive increase in the number of plug in cars, especially in light of the fact that these cars will not be distributed uniformly but will be concentrated in areas where there are lots of rich people. I can easily see the power grid in Hollywood/Santa Monica having regular brown outs.
You can generate hydrogen on site using electrolysis (high school chemistry) in the off peak hours, you don't need to ship hydrogen around in tankers. I don't know what is going to be cheaper when mass produced: plug in drive trains (large battery + internal combustion motor) or fuel cell vehicles (fuel cell + hydrogen container + small battery). I find it telling that both Honda and Toyota are dedicated to fuel cells even thought they are both undisputed leaders in hybrid cars.
"Remember that there are currently around 130,000 gas stations in the country; if we don't reduce the need for them, we're talking about converting them all. And that's a lot of work!"
You'd never sell hydrogen and gas at the same station. There are too many environmental hoops to jump through to build a gas station, hydrogen stations will probably be much cheaper to build and who wants to be reminded of gasoline when they go to fill up their tank with hydrogen? Also you don't need 130,000 gas stations to meet demand, you may have noticed that many gas stations have another gas station across the street.
required 2:35PM (5/13/2009)
On a side note, direct-ethanol fuel cells (or or DEFCs) sound great. Especially using bio-ethanol.
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jharlan 3:19PM (5/13/2009)
This might work in Tokyo, or NY, or SF. It won't be of much use out here in fly over country. I would guess it will never fly without huge government (read taxpayers) incentives or mandates, even in Japan.
Toyota hasn't ever been accused of being stupid, so they must have a game plan. If it's another FCX Clarity (a nice economy car for the rich and famous) I won't be impressed much.
I haven't read much about direct ethanol fuel cells, but that sounds interesting.
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augustus 3:36PM (5/13/2009)
"Apparently, the California rules give more ZEV credits for fuel cell vehicles than for plug-in hybrids"
Duh? Plug in Hybrids can still burn hydrocarbon fuel. One presumes that the energy source that creates hydrogen gas will have its carbon accounted for through some other mechanism. Note that the energy source that produces hydrogen will be far more efficient than an internal combustion engine.
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Bill 9:54AM (5/14/2009)
CARB still gives more credit to fuel-cell vehicles than pure EVs.
And the cheapest source of hydrogen for vehicles remains natural gas.
Plenty of CO2 is released in that process.
Even then, the hydrogen produced is very expensive ($8-$10/gallon of gasoline equivalent)
To be burned in 40% efficient fuel cells (no better than a gas-electric hybrid)
Chris M 6:27PM (5/14/2009)
Bill has got it. The only reason why Toyota is even considering moving up production is to take advantage of that blatant CARB bias in favor of H2.
I'm guessing they will do like Honda, make a handful of H2FC vehicles one at a time (series production), and lease them to a few L.A. celebrities for the publicity.
augustus 3:40PM (5/13/2009)
One wonders what Honda and Toyota know about fuel cells that the Obama administration doesn't. Perhaps they know that you can't make an Accord/Camry that justifies the cost of the hybrid power train. I wonder if the slight gains in fuel efficiency for a Camry hybrid will ever offset the carbon footprint that goes into creating the more complex car.
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Chris M 6:32PM (5/14/2009)
If they can't justify the additional cost of hybridizing an Accord or Camry, how could they possibly justify the much higher cost of H2 storage and the absurdly high cost of H2 fuel cells, especially when the per mile fuel cost is higher for H2?
I suspect that the H2FC programs will be cancelled once the subsidies run out and plug-ins take off.
Tohe 3:53PM (5/13/2009)
Follow the money, If hydrogen programs are still going, it is because there is still funding to be burned. Only the oil industry can be so stubborn to push h2 these days.
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augustus 4:06PM (5/13/2009)
Seriously? You are saying that Toyota and Honda are still developing hydrogen because they are in league with the oil industry? Do you know how paranoid and stupid that sounds? Oil only goes away with battery only cars or hydrogen fuel cell cars. Plug in hybrids use gasoline (if they don't burn the gas it will become unusable and ruin your car).
Tohe 4:17PM (5/13/2009)
You make no sense, so I won't even argue. I'll stand by my comment. Oil has an interest in hydrogen and it would make sense for them to finance research programs, an there is no one better to conduct said programs than the people who actually make cars. Finally, I doubt Toyota, or any care maker, are in the business of turning money away.
Throwback 8:30AM (5/14/2009)
Toyota, Honda, GM etc are all for profit companies. They are persuing H2 becuase they think there will be a market for these vehicles. They are smart not to bet on one fuel source for their future products. I think we will see EVs of all stripes down the road, as well as petroleum powered cars.
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Herm 10:43AM (5/14/2009)
Lots of fuel cell work going on in Japan.. but for home use.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/world/2008-03-03-japan-fuel-cell-home_N.htm
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