So why are range extenders bad?

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...Because I won't need to settle for a Fisker Karma or a GM Volt (both have ICE-based range extenders). Yes, I know that a fully loaded 300-miles capable Model S could get quite expensive, but at least the possibility will exist.

Pure electric with style, now that's the dream...

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Tesla S should really consider compatible swappable battery with Better Place, since they are already planning swappable batteries from the bottom of the car. This will allow people who wants range, Tesla styling, and be able to afford a Tesla. It would also allow Tesla to do the weekend 300 miles battery swapping for those who bought Tesla batteries quickly and easily. It will also allows Tesla to promote very easy minimal cost (to Tesla) battery "upgrade" for those who have cash later, or when better battery technology arrives.

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A range extender is just dead weight and needless maintenance, the vast majority of the time if you have decent battery range, if you don't have the battery range then battery becomes the dead weight in EV mode.

You get a heck of a lot of simplification by ditching the Gas engine, cool system, fuel system, exhaust system.

In choosing between:

1) An efficient non plug in:
Prius/Diesel

2) A PHEV/EREV
Volt (40 mile EV + RE)

3) Pure electric:
Model S (100 mile+ range).

I think for most people you are better off with 1 or 3 most of the time.

If you will almost never driver farther than your EV range of the Volt, a pure EV would be better (rent when you rarely need long range).

If you will exceed your EV range very often, you will probably be better off just having another efficient non plug in solution, because EREV is going to be sub optimal once you flatten the battery.

There may be some people that the EREV makes more sense for, but I think the majority would be better served by other solutions.

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What's wrong with range extenders? Well, here's Tesla's perspective:

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We looked closely at a range extender architecture for Model S. It ends up costing about the same in vehicle unit cost, a lot more in R&D and a lot more in servicing. Also, although performance is ok when both battery and engine are active at the same time, it turns really bad when the battery runs out and an undersized engine is carrying all the deadweight of the pack. Essentially, a REV is neither fish nor fowl and ends up being worse (in our opinion) than either a gasoline or pure electric vehicle.

An important consideration that people without a technical background don’t understand is that you can either have a high power or a high energy cell chemistry, but not both. Since the battery pack in a plug in hybrid like the Volt has to generate the same *power* as a much larger battery pack in a pure electric vehicle, it has to use a low energy cell chemistry.

That means a 40 mile REV pack is not 1/5 the size of a 200 mile pure EV pack, as simple proportionality would suggest. Another factor is that the REV pack is forced to do three to four times more cycles that a pure EV pack and is (obviously) hit with five times the current per cell during acceleration and regen braking, which forces the REV pack to be derated considerably.

The net result is that a 40 mile REV pack is roughly half the size of a 200 mile EV pack. On top of that, you have to add the engine, generator and all the interconnects between engine and battery. It ends up having about the same mass and worse packing efficiency than a pure EV, plus you still have to deal with all the environmental issues of a gasoline engine.

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>"rent when you rarely need long range"

I think this is THE biggest obstacle to EV adoption. I think many people who don't really need SUV's and pickups justify them because on occasion they may need to carry extra people or pick up a fridge or pallet of grass or the like. So they buy/bought a much bigger vehicle than required to accommodate those possible eventualities. Of course they could have bought something smaller and rented a big vehicle a time or two a year if needed. But that mindset of upsizing to cover as many eventualities as possible is pretty pervasive, even with the sacrifices involved in using a big vehicle as a daily driver.

Similarly, I bet the majority of drivers don't drive over 100 miles in a day very often. But most of those drivers wouldn't consider buying a vehicle with "only" a 100 mile range. The reasoning is the same as above... why not go ahead an buy the car that provides all-day driving capability even if I rarely/ever do that. That's an especially hard sell if the lower-range vehicle has a higher purchase price, because lifetime cost is another thing most consumers have a hard time grasping.

It's definitely going to be a hard sell for EV's until gas gets and stays expensive.

"Wheels can take you around
Wheels can cut you down
We can go from boom to bust
From dreams to a bowl of dust
We can fall from rockets' red glare
Down to "Brother can you spare..."
Another war
Another wasteland
And another lost generation"

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How much would an average person save in fuel costs given a Model S vs a similar-sized ICE sedan? Disregarding the initial purchase cost, and assuming $3.50 - 4.00/gallon gasoline, I might save around $900/year going all electric. That's about 12-13 days of full-size vehicle rental where I am.

I know there are lots of variable factors (price of electricity, gas, rental cost, miles driven, etc), but I can understand from a strictly economical perspective, why it still makes sense to own a larger vehicle and have it available year-round.

For those who already own 2 vehicles, changing one to electric is probably the smart thing to do. But for the rest of us, I'm not so sure yet. I'm just playing devil's advocate here...I'm a big fan of electric

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Matt:

I think that most people who buy a big pickup truck use the *justification* "Maybe someday I'll need to move a fridge" to cover for the real reason: I want to feel like a real man.

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Matt:

Points for being a Rush Fan. Obviously I like the older stuff.

For myself I know that I don't even get close to 100 miles in a day except when I do a road trip vacation Twice/year. Clearly I could rent for that. Also the Model S has a smallest battery size with a ~160 mile range. As I said if you are exceeding that regularly, a Prius is probably better than a Volt. My basic point is while the short range EV with range extender initially makes sense, when you think about it more, it is kind of weak at everything, depending on your usage, one of the other solutions would likely work better.

I agree, some will have range anxiety and will want something that covers every need, but pure EVs should fit perfectly in two car families as a commuter. It will also fit those willing to make a small adjustment to renting when they need "more car".

I rented a moving truck to move last year. I certainly wouldn't want to drive something like that around on a regular basis.

Heck I know people who gave up on car ownership. I know someone who rents about every second weekend. There are things like zipcar. I think when fuel goes back up (and it will). People will become more open to all kinds of alternate solutions and that includes pure EVs.

I am not trying to hate on EREVs, I just don't know what it really covers better than the other solutions.

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I gotta side with Matt. Range extenders remove range anxiety. Range anxiety is a major, and often legitimate, reason to not purchase a pure EV.

Until the correct infrastructure is in place, I wouldn't consider an EV without a range extender. Not as my primary vehicle anyway.

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I see the point about the EREV not often being the best solution, but here's a possible scenario where it would fit:

Say your daily commute (work, groceries, stuff for kids, etc) is less than 40 miles, and your parents or girlfriend or whomever you often visit on weekends lives 220 miles away. A 200-mile electric range provides no additional benefit than a 40-mile electric range during the week, and no additional benefit for visiting your loved ones (which in this scenario you often do). But the range extender does keep you from having to rent something or own a second car for those weekend trips.

Sound right?

Obviously if your loved ones and regular vacation spots all are within 200 miles (or 160) then 1) you're lucky & 2) the EV is the better solution.

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whoops. headline corrected. thanks

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The Tesla Roadster is the sexist car ever IMO.
But I like both the Roadster and Model S. Both are really inspiring vehicles.

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