House of Representative restoring more of DOE's hydrogen funding
Honda FCX Clarity - click above for high-res image gallery
Earlier this month, the Senate Energy and Water Development Appropriations Subcommittee marked up the FY 2010 DOE budget and restored the hydrogen vehicle funding that President Obama and the DOE had slashed in May. The Congressional love for H2 continued last week when the House of Representatives voted on the FY 2010 Energy and Water Appropriations bill (which included the DOE's budget). The House restored $45 million for things like the Market Transformation Program, Hydrogen Research-Fuels Research and Development, the Enabling Activities Program, Hydrogen Infrastructure, and Fuel Cell Manufacturing Research, according to Fuel Cell Insider. With President Obama and DOE head Steven Chu having made their anti-hydrogen case earlier this year, how will the White House respond if the bill comes to the President's desk with millions for H2 included? Thanks to Mike S. for the tip!
Photos copyright ©2009 Sebastian Blanco / Weblogs, Inc.
[Source: Fuel Cell Insider]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tohe 7:06PM (7/20/2009)
Vote to keep the establishment in Congress and this is what you get. Next round my vote will go to the new guy, it is up to us to make our Country change.
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downtoearth 7:14PM (7/20/2009)
We often ask ourselves a question - what do car companies know that we do not so they push hydrogen so much while it superficially seems to make no sense (plug-in hybrids are much cheaper, tech is here and they are far more efficient).
Well, here might just be the answer: http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5559
Minerals scarcity.
The scientist authoring the presentation on The Oil Drum argues that we may soon hit peak of selected crucial minerals production. Although lower grade ore is abundant, it will require too much energy to mine and process it and the energy itself will be getting more and more expensive which will make production economically nonviable.
He suggest that without certain minerals massive electrification is just impossible.
Maybe.... just maybe, production of fuel cells will be dependent on abundant elements while battery chemistry will not? Maybe here is the catch.
He does not evaluate the potential of recycling, also does not mention the shift from production of rare elements consuming trash goods to essential ones and how much of those minerals in deficit can be recovered by doing so. Anyway, this might just be the mysterious answer why all car makers play with hydrogen so much.
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BillySharps 8:00PM (7/20/2009)
Nope. It's not the reason. Lithium is much more abundant than palladium and platinum.
SteveCT 8:02PM (7/20/2009)
Lithium, the most significant mineral copmponent of lithium-ion batteries, can be produced from common seawater at relatively low cost. By contrast, platinum, which is a mineral component of fuel cells, is extremely rare and expensive.
There is no "mysterious answer" why some automakers are still pushing hydrogen. There are only the obvious answers: stupidity, fear of change, greenwashing, etc.
Chris M 8:30PM (7/20/2009)
Interesting article, but it doesn't really delve into the "battery vs. H2 fuel cell" debate.
The "scarcity" problem it mentions is much more severe with H2 PEM fuel cells, as they require platinum, which is far more limited in supply than lithium and other elements for batteries. There is sufficient lithium reserves to replace the entire passenger car fleet with EVs and still have plenty left over, but the limited platinum supply puts a severe limit on the number of H2FC vehcles that can be produced.
Near the end of the article, the author lists several elements that he calls "Elements of Hope". They are particularly common and have low toxicity, so they are unlikely to ever suffer a shortage problem or cause environmental problems. Some of those "elements of hope" are suitable for use in high performance batteries. .
There was one error in that article, it makes the mistaken assumption that all EV motors require permanent magnets containing rare earth metals. Induction motors, like the ones made by Tesla Motors, does not contain permanent magnets or any rare earth metals.
Chris M 8:37PM (7/20/2009)
The lack of rare earth metals to make permanent magnets would affect H2 fuel cell cars just as much as battery electrics, as they both rely on electric motors. However, since there are several motor and generator designs that don't use permanent magnets thus don't require rare earth metals, it really isn't the big problem that the author pretends.
Dave 8:55PM (7/20/2009)
And how does Hydrogen solve a minerals scarcity problem? Fuel cell vehicles require all of the additional components that an EV requires: Motors, power electronics, batteries (just fewer of them). And fuel cell vehicles still require a fuel cell which with current technology requires quite a few precious metals.
Chris M 8:50PM (7/20/2009)
How will President Obama respond? Good question. He might decide it isn't worth spending political capital over, and just sign it through. He might veto it, and explain to Congress exactly why he is vetoing it.
Or, he could try the old Bush Jr. trick of "signing statements" and just not release the money. Not likely, that tactic isn't Obama's style, and it could cause lots of trouble later on.
At any rate, we'll find out soon what the decision will be.
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Dave 8:57PM (7/20/2009)
Personally, I think he's likely to just sign it through for now and later attempt to bring funding back down to where he wants it.
BlackbirdHighway 9:32PM (7/20/2009)
Big deal. $45 million won't go very far. If that keeps the hydrogen folks from squawking too much while keeping them in a low orbit, then it's probably money well spent.
BEVs are already way out in front in this race and pulling away fast. Soon hydrogen will be nothing more than a footnote in transportation history.
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sac 11:22PM (7/20/2009)
I couldn't have said it better myself. And since the infrastructure still needs to be built there is really very little hope for hydrogen at this point. The EV infrastructure already exists and a public infrastructure with charge points in parking lots and on streets will be easy and cheap to build by comparison to H2. I predict that the H2 funding we decay assymtotically to some very low level but never fully dissapear (as is appropriate).
Boxman 9:39PM (7/20/2009)
Judging by the way Obama's handled the health care debate, I predict he'll puss out and let Congress restore their hydrogen pork barrel spending. The way Obama went out of his way to compromise with Republicans, health insurance companies, and other vested interests on the health care issue shows him to be a political coward. If Obama doesn't have the balls to take a principled stand on health care (his baby) I doubt he's going to make any waves on this hydrogen issue.
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Yanquetino 11:08PM (7/20/2009)
How can they be called "representatives" if this is how they represent us?
Guess who are listed among the *TOP 10* firms by the amount spent to lobby Congress so far this year?
2. $9,320,000 - ExxonMobil
4. $6,800,000 - Chevron
7. $5,980,935 - ConocoPhillips
Yup: you guessed it. The folks who want to SELL us hydrogen when their crude runs out. The very same ones who made the biggest profits in history just last year.
If you add it up, they have just DOUBLED their lobbying investment --by picking OUR pockets.
If our government representatives truly represented us, they would put on on tax forms a checkbox that says:
[_] Donate $1 of your taxes to the oil industries' hydrogen research.
How many here would check that box, I wonder....
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Mark 3:19PM (7/21/2009)
The respresent someone but it isn't the people who voted for them. Both political parties are in the pockets of big business and it will remain this way for the forseeable future.
"Bill Maher for King"
sac 2:15AM (7/21/2009)
This car would make a sweet looking BEV.
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Serge 11:58AM (7/21/2009)
There is still hope: rip out the fuel-cell, hydrogen storage tanks and all axillary crap; add gas or diesel engine tuned for generator role, add plug and price in the range of loaded Prius = very competitive product (and a clear path to evolution).
Alan 12:51PM (7/21/2009)
It's an amazing looking car, funny that Honda can make something so beautiful that will almost certainly never be a production car with that powertrain.
Honda and Toyota - if you're reading this - get with the EV program, drop(or severely cut back) your hydrogen research, build battery factories everywhere, maybe even buy some lithium mining licenses! You're getting left behind, Mitsubishi and Nissan are steaming ahead!
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David Martin 12:57PM (7/21/2009)
It seems strange to me that all the emphasis is on fuel cells for transport.
The real winner for fc's is installation in housing, where a small unit can use natural gas, reform it and produce both electricity and heat water with the waste heat with incredible efficiency.
It knocks burning natural gas at central locations for electricity into a cocked hat, as that is only around 40% efficient.
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Chris M 4:19PM (7/21/2009)
The problem for "home fuel cells" still remains the prohibitively high cost of the fuel cells. A "Combined Heat and Power" uinit using an internal combustion engine or gas turbine or Stirling engine, would work just as well for the primary duty of providing heat, and would provide almost as much electrical power, and would actually be affordable and economically practical.
David Martin 5:09PM (7/21/2009)
You are correct that they are still pricey, but that is what you would expect for technology at this stage of development.
Major Japanese, Korean and at least one Australian company are pushing on rapidly with their development.
Here is the Australian company, which uses a rather neat solid oxide fuel cell:
http://www.cfcl.com.au/Fuel_Cell_Systems/
I'm not sure about automative applications, as weight and space constraints are severe, but there would seem to be no real reason to doubt that a lot of progress in cost reduction for household use is not possible by around 2015.
Many large corporations are certainly putting in the resources to make it happen.