No. Diesel heads are too dumb to accept this. Facts don't count to them.

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Where the diesel reigns in this list is the "fun to drive" category. The low-end responsiveness is still better than any of the hybrid offerings. Alas, we're still buying cars for more than one reason.

So its not so much that it gets the best mileage, but (for some people) it gets a higher overall satisfaction rating (based on styling, performance, price, mileage, &c). Those people may attempt to justify it based purely on mileage, but obviously that's incorrect.

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How many miles do you get before you have to replace the battery in the diesel? Oh wait only hybrids have that problem (and yes this matters to those of us who drive quite a bit).

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How many miles in the diesel before you need an expensive transmission service on your DSG (The Prius HSD is essentially maintenance free), How many expensive VW timing belt changes will you need before the Prius needs a timing chain, how much will that hyper complex emission system cost to repair. How much is a blown VW turbo, how much more are expensive VW oil changes etc...

How about we just be generous to the VW and call maintenance and equal including the battery replacement, because if I had to choose I would prefer replacing the Toyota maintenance (battery included) than paying VW maintenance.

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Snowdog 4:04PM (8/12/2009)
Do your homework. the first 3 years of maintenance is included in the purchase of the vehicle. That puts a HUGE dent in your argument. The fact that hybrids have essentially 2 power systems combined means they are more expensive to maintain (more parts= more things that can break/wear out)

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Is that because it's a hatchback? The Fusion feels much more roomy than a Prius.

Where's the Camry hybrid in this mess?

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Yes. Prius has 6 cu.ft. passenger volume less than Fusion hybrid but 10 cu.ft more cargo volume.

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It's not surprising to you or me, but I hope this is a big wakeup call to people who incorrectly believe that cars like the Prius perform much worse on the highway, and are handily beaten by diesels and small cars like the Mini on highway fuel economy.

The truth is, and what I think the article really highlighted well, was that the new Prius racks up pretty much the same fuel economy regardless of city versus highway. It doesn't lose to diesels and small cars as is the common misconception.

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Bahahaha! Fusion FFV with 15 mpg on E85! yeah that will save us.

You are such a blind zealot that you keep harping about choices that burn more energy, cost more money (and create more environmental damage) when it should be obvious that you are much better off getting something like a Prius than an E85 ethanol hog.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
Compare the Prius to the FFV Fusion:

Prius MPG on Gas: 50 mpg
Fusion FFV on E85: 15 mpg ( no that is not a typo, 15mpg)

Now which do you think will save more on energy usage? I don't know about most people but I think you would have be a real zealot to drive around on tax supported corn juice getting 15 mpg and still pretend this is somehow saving energy.

At 15mpg how much actual energy benefit are we getting say compared to driving a more fuel efficient gas powered car?

I contend that 1.3:1 ethanol energy gain ratio, driving the Prius uses half as much energy as a E85 car doing 15mpg, when only counting the inputs on the e85 side.

That means a Prius would cut energy use twice as much as boondoggle mobile like the Fusion FFV.

If everyone bought a Prius and ran it on RUG, we would use half as much fuel with corresponding drop in imports. Done.

If everyone bought a FFV fusion and ran it on E85, we have a small decrease in fuel usage with small decrease in some imports, but we would have to cover the land mass in corn grow ops, we would have to deplete water tables everywhere, we would massive increase pesticide and fertilizer run off, creating a toxic nightmare and we would dramatically increase fertilizer production massively increasing natural gas usage. And still probably couldn't come close to meeting E85 demand.

We can better achieve reduction of imports but simply buy more efficient vehicles like the Prius, and we don't have to create massive ecological nightmare that would come from 8 times as much corn agriculture.

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If you are going to throw other cars into the mix, why not add the Tesla Roadster (0 gas, 0 emissions) It makes them all look like dirty polluters.

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The real zealotry here is mindlessly pursuing "saving energy" as a goal in and of itself without any regard to why that goal was originally conceived of or whether it is actually effective.

It's not about "saving energy". "Saving energy", or conservation, is completely irrelevant and pursuing it is a waste of time.

Conservation is a) impossible and b) wouldn't de-fund the enemy and reduce our economic vulnerability even if it did.

It's impossible because we've tried it already. From 1976 to 1990, thanks to CAFE standards, our average MPGs went from 13 to 20, a huge increase. But our gasoline usage went UP, not down -- from 89 to 103 billion gallons a year. And half that 14 year span was spent in either recession or stagflation - if that had been all growth we would have grown our gasoline use even more.

The reality is that growth in population and economic growth (with the concomitant increase in the number and proportion of drivers and the amount of driving each does) is so fast that it easily overwhelms any gains in efficiency.

The goal then is NOT NOT NOT to mindlessly stupidly blindly try force a destructive pointlessly painful reduction in energy consumption or fuel usage, but to realize that all those things are INEVITABLY going to rise, and thus to switch to energy sources and fuels that are clean, not permanently controlled by an exploitative cartel, and which do not fund terrorism and related extremism.

But let's say we COULD, through heroic / draconian efforts

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[accidentally posted before I was done - continuing from prior post]

But let's say we COULD, through heroic / draconian efforts, mount a worldwide effort to force everyone into smaller weaker slower flimsier cars than they were driving before, or make them pay THOUSANDS extra per car for hybrid capability, and thus somehow impose an actual reduction in gasoline use of 10%. (Set aside the enormous human cost of this).

Would that cut OPEC's revenue by 10%? Of course not. They could just slash production and reduce world supply to match, thus increasing the market price, and make just as much as before on reduced sales volume. And the nuclear program(s), terrorist groups, and thousands of murder cult indoctrination centers roll on utterly unimpeded while we have sacrificed greatly for nothing.

Not only that, but since we are still stupidly insisting on using ONLY petroleum fuel, which OPEC has a permanent, unfixable, lock on the market of, we are just as much grave danger of another 1973 or 1979 style oil shock from an embargo, or of a 1999-2008 style oil price run-up that crushes our economy under its burden. In fact, we are in MORE danger of it because a smaller oil market with lower demand means that it is harder for higher cost smaller output producers to compete with OPEC - conservation is thus OPEC's best friend.

Finally, every gallon of gasoline burned means CO2 that was not in the air for millions of years and that would have been sequestered for basically forever underground got drilled up and burned into the atmosphere. To make it easy to understand, think of 10 units of CO2 sitting in the air right now. Without conservation, you would add 2 new units to have 12 total units of CO2. With conservation, to be extremely generous, you add one new unit, to have 11 total units. But that's still making things worse. The point is, ANY use of fossil fuels adds more CO2 to the air than would otherwise have been the case. You are still making the situation WORSE, not better. All those smug Prius drivers fondly imagining they are doing something positive for the environment are wrong.

Conservation, "saving energy", despite its having become an unexamined assumption and a sacred goal beyond rational challenge, is in reality a strategy for defeat on every level - geostrategic, economic, and environmental.

And finally us usual like all anti ethanol doomsdayers you ignore methanol which can be made from any biomass including sewage, waste, and weeds.

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The design of the Prius actually streamlines the car and reduces the wind drag co-efficient, so the Prius will always be ugly. This also explains why the new Insight is so similarly shaped.

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