Chevy Volt's 230 mpg rating, ad campaign comes under fire from Bill Ford, AdAge
The Chevrolet Volt's 230 mpg number continues to be questioned. The latest to criticize is Bill Ford, who takes issue not only with the General Motors-approved 230 figure, but also Nissan's claim that its Leaf EV will get 367 mpg. The real culprit here, Ford said, is the EPA's methodology, which he argues is meaningless. "This question devolves into madness," Ford reportedly told Green Car Advisor:
"The government will have to come up with a meaningful number for customers - a user-friendly label. And I think they will. I can't dispute that number, but I'm not sure it's relevant to the customer either."Ford also said that since his company doesn't "have any particular expertise in batteries," they'll probably buy the batteries from established manufacturers for their own electrified cars.
Speaking of relevance, Advertising Age, the publication that was first to guess that the whole 230 teaser campaign was a GM plot, has determined that the stunt was a bad idea. The big problems it sees with the campaign are that it often gave people the wrong idea (that 230 would be the U.S.'s new a standard voltage for outlets) and didn't give people enough breadcrumbs to follow to the Volt. It created more questions than answers, until the big reveal last week. In any case, the whole thing was targeted at a younger, hipper audience, but are these the people who have $40,000+ to buy a Volt?
Gallery: 2011 Chevy Volt
[Sources: Green Car Advisor, Advertising Age]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jerehouser 9:35PM (8/19/2009)
Ford has been the king of the misleading ads for years. They have no room to criticize anyone.
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wincros 10:11PM (8/19/2009)
Do you have a couple of concrete examples for those of us who do not pay attention to Ford ads?
Caleb Fisher 10:58PM (8/19/2009)
I think it's more of a problem with the EPA and rating plug-in vehicles. What the EPA could do is have an MPG rating at every so many miles listed on the vehicle's fuel consumption sticker. For instance, at 50 miles the Volt may get 230 MPG, but at 100 miles it may get 140 MPG and at 200 miles it may get 80 MPG. In my mind this works b/c the mileage of a plug in hybrid or E-REV depends so much on how far you drive before you can fill up on electrons again. Also this gives more info to the consumer so he/she can make an educated decision as to what vehicle fits their needs, an ICE, EV, PHEV, or E-REV.
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why not the LS2LS7? 11:06PM (8/19/2009)
Except the Leaf is a regular EV.
The problem there is the EPA math is just plain wrong. Their electric mpg equivalent just isn't equivalent.
the4thheat 1:47AM (8/20/2009)
Younger and hipper my butt...my non-car loving friend who doesn't even care about cars actually called me up and asked whether I had seen this ad campaign because he thought it was so retardedly misleading.
The only thing they got the young and hip set to believe is that GM apparently takes everyone for idiots.
The Other Bob 8:43AM (8/20/2009)
I agree with Caleb.
There really is no good way to measure these vehicles, especially without reworking the way we measure the mileage of all vehicles.
The thing is we will be able to get 230 mpg if the car is used in a way average people will use it and used CORRECTLY. (Charging daily) I can also make a standard 40 mpg car get about 10 mpg if I use it INCORRECTLY. If I floor a civic everytime I accelerate and zoom uphill, I won't get the EPA estimated mileage either.
GoodCheer 10:50AM (8/20/2009)
I disagree. Having a string of 5, or 8, or however many numbers corresponding to the "mileage" at a given distance is just going to be more confusing.
In my opinion, the only sensible option for describing the efficiency of any plug-in is
a) The range using only the battery. (Volt: 40miles, Aptera: 60 miles etc.)
b) The 'charge sustaining' fuel economy in the city cycle.
c) The 'charge sustaining' fuel economy on the highway cycle.
That way two of the three numbers are exactly what people are used to seeing, and the third is what sets PHEVs apart from any other (non-plug-in) vehicle, hybrid or not.
Even for PHEVs that operate the generator/ICE before the battery is at minimum SoC (i.e., in a 'blended operation' mode), the number can simply be the usable energy in the battery divided by the electrical energy efficiency.
And having said that, there is a section on the EPA's web-site where you can leave feedback on their proposed regulations.
CaramelZappa 11:40PM (8/19/2009)
This whole thing is ridiculous. You have 40 miles of electric range, where you aren't using any gas. THEN you start using the generator, at which point you probably get closer to 30mpg. Mixing the two at hardly over the EV range is dishonest, misleading, and useless.
And nissan claiming a mpg for the leaf? It's "unlimited" because you'll never use a drop of gasoline. You just can't compare gas and electric cars like that, it doesn't make sense.
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why not the LS2LS7? 12:23AM (8/20/2009)
The Volt gets over 50mpg on gas, not 30mpg.
And the figure for the Leaf is from a government document to calculate miles per gallon equivalent (to gas). The problem is the calculation uses a figure of 81kWh in a gallon of gas when there are only 33kWh. This inflated the mpge from a normal 150mpge for an electric car (the Tesla does the same, the Volt on electricity is slightly lower at about 130mpge) to the huge figure Nissan mentioned.
paulwesterberg 11:56AM (8/20/2009)
I love how the GM marketing executive in this picture looks like a total tool of a used car salesman. Smiling like an idiot while he lies through his teeth.
Tohe 11:41PM (8/19/2009)
Bill Ford is a straight forward kind of guy, his sincerity is refreshing. As far as the campaign goes, young hipper crowds are likely to be better informed and if not they are likely to be better connected and reach said information anyways. Deceiving people is always a failing attitude.
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why not the LS2LS7? 12:24AM (8/20/2009)
Oh heck yeah, well informed, that's why we have two comments on this page alone that misstate the situation.
Bill Ford is just marketing for himself. His company is the one that advertises the Ford Fusion Hybrid at 40mpg and it can't seem to break 36mpg in most tests. Unlike the Totota Camry Hybrid that is rated at 35mpg and gets about 35mpg in tests.
Tohe 5:19AM (8/20/2009)
Exactly, the fact that those people come to a blog and exchange information is the very cornerstone of my statement. In the end truth prevails over false claims. I also agree that Bill Ford is pursuing his interest as he should and he isn't telling us otherwise, either way his message remains factual and sincere, sometimes being honest can work for everyone.
meg 1:22AM (8/20/2009)
Has anyone considered developing a new methodology for classifying efficiency? Since we're dealing with partial electrics, electrics, gas-guzzlers and (maybe) hydrogen - why discuss things in terms of MPG. If heaters can get ratings regardless of whether they are natural gas or electric, why can't we have a similar system for cars?
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Mattias in Durham, NC 6:13AM (8/20/2009)
Potentially a good idea, that would be something like BTU/mile. But what do you do with a heat pump? Those are also rated in BTUs, but produce very different amounts of heat depending on ambient temperature. (Just illustrating that it's not clear cut even for heaters.)
The basic problem with EV with a range extender is that you have two fuel sources and one MPG number. To understand its energy consumption you need three numbers. You need "battery size in KWh", "range on electricity alone", plus a good old MPG for a long road trip.
I have been wondering what the marketing machine at GM was thinking. They either think the general public is pretty stupid, or they think we are pretty smart. For those who are in-between (i.e. staying casually informed), I assume people are going to think GM is deliberately trying to fool you. Especially with the auto industry's baggage, they will not get the benefit of a doubt.
I think it's a mistake by GM, and maybe a missed opportunity, but there is no arguing that lots of folks have heard the number by now, and it does get people talking. There's also no arguing that the Volt is going to be pretty darn cool.
NeilBlanchard 6:40AM (8/20/2009)
Hi,
The two instances where Ford has "stretched" the truth recently:
They claimed the Flex is the most efficient in it's class -- but there is a GM model (sorry I'm not awake yet) that gets better MPG.
They claimed the Fusion Hybrid is the most efficient "sedan" (or some subtle differentiation) while the Prius is obviously much more efficient. And the Prius has more interior volume...
Sincerely, Neil
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Jamarr 9:06AM (8/20/2009)
No, actually they haven't.
The Flex FWD is rated 17/24/20 and the four GMs are 17/24/19. Slim victory, but a W is a W.
When you close the trunk of a Prius, come let me know.
NeilBlanchard 9:27AM (8/20/2009)
Hi,
I was thinking of the Equinox 22 City 32 Highway -- I think that pretty much trounces the Flex...
As for the Prius size, I'm 6'-4" and my brother is 6'-6" and my son was 5'-5" at the time -- and we *all three* sat comfortably in the back seat of a Gen 2 Prius! My mother, who is 6'-0" and the salesman who was ~5'-10" were in the front. I don't think that the Fusion would be very much different from this...
Sincerely, Neil
jward35 10:12AM (8/20/2009)
Excited to see your proof of this claim, but you will struggle to do so. Flex FWD 3.5 liter gets 17/24, which is as good as or better than all of the competition in the 7-seat full-size crossover segment. The GM product you are referring to are the Lamda products (Acadia, Traverse etc.) which get the exact same mileage.
The Equinox is in a different class (only seats 5) where they themselves compare to Escape Hybrid but get that wrong too. The Equinox gets 22/32 for a combined figure of 26. The Escape Hybrid gets 34/31 for a combined figure of 32 - oops GM!
The Fusion hybrid is also rated in a different class to the Prius. Toyota have a Hybrid in the mid-size sedan segment called the Camry and Fusion shoots that down in some style.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:34AM (8/20/2009)
jward35:
GM says the Equinox has better highway mileage than the Escape hybrid. They say "highway mileage" and then again in the ad they say "the most fuel efficient crossover on the highway". And the Equinox does get better fuel economy on the highway than the Escape hybrid.
The Fusion hybrid is the highest rated sedan that I can tell. But in the tests I've seen, it does no better than the Camry, which is rated 15% lower. I still like the Fusion hybrid better, but I feel a leery of it, I'd feel more comfortable if it were rated lower but did a better job of meeting it's ratings. Then I'd feel Ford was being more square with me.