At Witz' End - Best of the Rest from the Center for Automotive Research automotive future forum
I reported last month on Nissan's LEAF EV plans, as presented by Nissan Product Planning VP Larry Dominique at the August Center for Automotive Research Management Briefing Seminars (CAR MBS) in Traverse City, MI. Dominique's presentation was one highlight. Others included three speakers from Toyota and two each from Ford and GM that I wanted to share with AutoblogGreen readers. Can't cover everything, but here are interesting excerpts:New Toyota President Akio Toyoda (oldest son of 1982-1992 president Shoichiro Toyoda and grandson of company founder Kiichiro Toyoda) didn't say much about advanced vehicles or powertrains but did position himself as a car enthusiast and race driver who intends to inject more excitement into his company's future products. He said Toyota would introduce a "fun and affordable sports car" and a (~$200K) Lexus supercar in the next several years.
Toyota Public Policy and Government/Industry Affairs Group VP Josephine "Jo" Cooper said, "It is more important than ever before that Washington and the auto industry work together and be serious about resolving our differences, which can lead to more sensible and effective policies." She added that Toyota "sees a clear path toward commercial introduction of a fuel cell vehicle by 2015" and will introduce a short-range urban commuter EV in 2012.
"In the 1990s," she reminded us, "we launched a retail version of our RAV4 EV to comply with a demonstration program required under California's Zero Emissions Vehicle mandate.... Our experience confirmed that three conditions must be satisfied before a new technology will be accepted by consumers: all technical problems MUST be resolved; the consumer and the market MUST be prepared; and regulatory policy MUST ALIGN with both these conditions.
There's more after the jump.
But, she recalled, "Retail customers were not prepared for the realities of cost and range limitations of the EV. Regulatory policy was ahead of the market. We now see a potential new market – albeit small – among younger buyers for that urban commuter vehicle. Hopefully, this time, government will let the market pull EV technology forward and support infrastructure development more effectively than it has in the past."
Cooper pointed out that it has taken 12 years to get conventional hybrids to nearly two percent of the market, while the President's goal of putting one million plug-in hybrids on U.S. roads by 2015 represents as much as 10 percent of all vehicles. The best way for government to support green technologies, she said, is to "provide greater consumer incentives, because creating demand spurs investment – not the other way around.... Above all, government should not pick winners and losers in the technology arena.... It will take monumental cooperation among all key players – automakers, energy providers, suppliers, labor unions, dealers, government, educators, NGOs, individuals and communities – to solve our transportation challenges."
In a third Toyota presentation, Advanced Powertrain Program Manager, Advanced Technology Vehicles, Justin Ward confirmed that Toyota will build short-range pure electrics but cautioned that longer-range EVs will be "very challenging" in terms of battery size, mass and cost. He sees urban EVs offering up to 50 miles of range as the best balance of package size, weight and affordability.
Ford Sustainability, Environment and Safety Engineering Group VP Sue Cischke discussed the President's proposed "Cap and Trade" program, under which the government would establish annual CO2 emissions allowances, or "caps" for every U.S. business. Those allowances, or "rights to emit" – worth serious money to those who need them for compliance – would be sold or traded (on Wall Street?) to other businesses. She also noted that the cost of reducing the 20 percent of U.S. CO2 output that the EPA attributes to light vehicles would be much higher than that for achieving much more substantial reductions from other sectors.
Cischke pointed out that Ford has doubled both its production and the number of models of hybrid vehicles and has announced "an aggressive strategy to bring four new electrified vehicles to market over the next three years." They include a battery electric Transit Connect commercial van in 2010, a battery electric Ford Focus small car in 2011 and next-generation hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles in 2012. "Overall," she said, "Ford has committed to $14 billion of investment in the development and deployment of new technologies over the next seven years."
Gallery: 2010 Ford Transit Connect
Tom Stephens, GM's new Product Development Vice Chairman, said he wanted to focus on "where we're going from here," adding that Fritz is leading a culture change like GM has never seen before." He emphasized that GM will focus on a leaner line-up of vehicles for its four core brands, each designed to be best in class, and cited numerous award-winning GM vehicles introduced in recent years. But he conceded that, "We need to do more of it, do it more consistently, and do it more quickly." Then he announced that GM's first 2-mode plug-in hybrid would be an "all-new crossover vehicle for Buick" in 2011. (Because the proposed Buick compact crossover has since been canceled, I'm betting on a 2-Mode plug-in Cadillac SRX.)
Stephens also announced that Chevy Volt battery cell supplier LG Chem has been selected to supply lithium ion cells for this plug-in hybrid crossover as well, and that affiliate Compact Power will supply the completed packs. But GM plans to be building its own packs in the near future. "Next year," he said, "we'll open the first lithium ion battery pack manufacturing facility by a major automaker...right here in Michigan. And we've opened battery research labs, both in Warren and in Ann Arbor, in conjunction with the University of Michigan.
"It's really important to us to keep moving forward on electrification," he concluded. "The three key differences between electric and conventional vehicles are electric motors, power electronics and batteries, and we've brought all three in-house as core technologies." He added that, "GM's advanced technology strategy is to pursue multiple energy solutions," including electricity, alternate fuels and hydrogen. "At the top of our advanced propulsion technology chart is the hydrogen fuel cell, an area in which we've made great progress. Hydrogen holds the promise of ZERO – zero petroleum used, and zero tailpipe emissions."
"Vehicle electrification will be the next big milestone," echoed GM Executive Director, Global Vehicle Engineering, Hybrids, Electric Vehicles and Batteries, Bob Kruse in his presentation. "One day we will remember the Chevy Volt like we remember the [first] 1953 Corvette." He asserted that GM intends to lead the industry in design and development of vehicle-size batteries as well as electric motors, power electronics, electric steering and brakes and other key components that will be used by a wide variety of electrically driven vehicles.
"Success hinges on the ability of automakers to be forward-looking, developing innovative technologies and creating new partnerships," said Dave McCurdy, president and CEO of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (AAM) – which represents VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Mazda and other imports as well as the three Detroit automakers. But, he cautioned, "development and introduction of new technologies takes a decade or longer.... [and] technologies are only useful if consumers choose to buy them."
Mike Stanton, McCurdy's counterpart at the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers (AIAM), reminded that increased fuel efficiency will have the unintended consequence of less gas tax revenue. Also that increasing CAFE requirements will inevitably bring higher vehicle prices. "We know we'll have increased technology," he said. "We know we'll have increased cost. How are we going to sell the vehicles? The long-term solution has to be a national energy policy. Piecemeal measures addressing individual sectors won't get it done. We need to educate lawmakers and media on costs, lead times and long vision."
Award-winning automotive writer Gary Witzenburg has been writing about automobiles, auto people and the auto industry for 21 years. A former auto engineer, race driver and advanced technology vehicle development manager, his work has appeared in a wide variety of national magazines including The Robb Report, Playboy, Popular Mechanics, Car and Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, Autoweek and Automobile Quarterly and has authored eight automotive books. He is currently contributing regularly to Kelley Blue Book (www.kbb.com), AutoMedia.com, Ward's Auto World and Motor Trend's Truck Trend and is a North American Car and Truck of the Year juror.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Yanquetino 12:22PM (9/14/2009)
"Josephine 'Jo' Cooper said: 'In the 1990s [...] we launched a retail version of our RAV4 EV to comply with a demonstration program required under California's Zero Emissions Vehicle mandate.... Our experience confirmed that three conditions must be satisfied before a new technology will be accepted by consumers: all technical problems MUST be resolved; the consumer and the market MUST be prepared; and regulatory policy MUST ALIGN with both these conditions.'"
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What she failed to clarify is that there is always a fourth condition, paramount above the other three, yet hidden behind them: that there "MUST be"... a large profit.
Toyota might have been able to earn a small profit on the RAV4 EV *if* they had put time, effort, and money into its mass production. But a possible small profit simply wasn't good enough, not when they were reaping much larger profit margins from their other vehicles and assembly lines. The bottom line was... well, the bottom line. So sad.
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paulwesterberg 1:26PM (9/14/2009)
Indeed, I would purchase a rav4 EV if it was still in production.
jake 1:59PM (9/14/2009)
I get the feeling from that too. The problem is that the RAV4EV impeded them from making large profits. A possible small profit in the future isn't good enough. As a car company obviously they care more about bottom line (despite the image they want to give us). Of course most of the promotion for the plug-in has already been done for them already in the current time (mostly grass roots efforts like Plug-in America), so I can see why they aren't as hesitant as before to pursue the plug-in car.
meme 1:53PM (9/14/2009)
Just ignoring the nonsense about the RAV4EV, this part here is nonsense, too:
"while the President's goal of putting one million plug-in hybrids on U.S. roads by 2015 represents as much as 10 percent of all vehicles."
In what world? There are ~250 million vehicles in the US. 1 million is 0.4%. 1 million vehicles isn't even 10% of a single year's sales, let alone five years' sales. The goal is for (approximately) a meager 1.5% of sales over the next five years.
To put it into perspective, Spain -- despite being far smaller than the US -- has the exact same electric vehicle goal as the US does (1 million by 2015).
Also, what they didn't mention about the hybrid market is A) that it was launched in a period of low oil prices, B) before global warming and other environmental concerns became big, C) before conflict with the Middle East flared up, D) much of the time, sales have been limited by production capacity, not demand; and E) it already did the legwork in getting people used to the concept of having an electric motor and large battery pack in your vehicle -- busting longevity myths and the like.
"She also noted that the cost of reducing the 20 percent of U.S. CO2 output that the EPA attributes to light vehicles would be much higher than that for achieving much more substantial reductions from other sectors."
Well, duh, that's the whole point of cap & trade -- those who can reduce emissions more cheaply end up doing so.
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Ernie 2:44PM (9/14/2009)
"before conflict with the Middle East flared up"
I didn't know hybrids were being produced before 1972...
meme 3:00PM (9/14/2009)
Wait, because something happened in the past, that means that any effects from it automatically continue indefinitely into the future at full intensity? Then why not criticize me for also stating that oil prices were low, when there had been times in the past where oil prices had been high?
Conflict with the middle east was at a relative lull in the late 1990s. This was before the Palestinian Intifada, before the flareup of the Iranian nuclear issue, before September 11th, before the invasion of Iraq, etc.
rob 3:57PM (9/14/2009)
@meme:
Not to be too nitpicky, but for the first 6 months of the year the US sales rate was around 9.5 million cars per year....so that meets the 10% sales goal if you look at it in terms of a yearly goal. July's number, because of C4C, moved it to 11.2 Million but it should come back down soon.
meme 4:07PM (9/14/2009)
That's because we're in a deep recession, obviously. Even in the 1980s, we were selling 14-16m cars + light trucks per year. Sure, 17.4m/year is unsustainable, but projecting sales of under 10m/year to last is simply unrealistic. The US is probably a 13-14m/year market.
Stan Peterson 2:22PM (9/14/2009)
Why should a LEAF that is totally dependent on a battery, not have to have a warranty on how long its battery will last? Yet a VOLT must by law warranty its battery for 150,000 miles of life, or an life of 12.5 years based on the average annual driven miles of 12,000 miles per year?
That is absurd.
Especially as the CARB regulation that forces a domestic VOLT to be warranted that long does nothing to protect a consumer or purchaser of the foreign LEAF, or a Tesla. It estimated that the extra cost can ADD as much as $8,000 to $10,000 to the price of a VOLT. Instead of a VOLT costing a probable $30,000 to buy, it has been inflated to an anticipated $40,000. Instead of $22,500 after a $7,500 rebate it will probably be $32,500 because of this stupid one-sided regulation. Once again, a typical government agency screw-up, that does more harm than help. An agency that is supposed to be encouraging cleaner cars such as electric cars, is in reality punishing them,and retarding their acceptance.
CARB needs to reform its regulations. It should put in place an even field,for all types of electric cars. The BEVs like the LEAF, or Tesla should have a reasonable warranty on their batteries like say 120,000 miles or an expected 10 years of life for the average 12,000 miles per year driver. Similarly, the regulation on the VOLT or Plug-in Prius should be reduced to conform to that reasonable 120,000 mile or an expected 10 year life.
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DasBoese 10:28PM (9/15/2009)
Do you have any sources for your claims or are you pulling numbers out of your ass?
It has been stated multiple times by GM that they will cover the Volt's battery with a warranty for 8 years, or 100,000 miles -voluntarily.
I might add that as far as we know, the Volt is totally dependent on its battery too, as the battery is what powers the electric motor at all times. It's likely that the car will not run without it even if the range extender works because it wouldn't be able to start it.
The Leaf isn't comparable because its battery will be leased to the customer and thus the question of warranty is moot.
len simpson 2:57PM (9/14/2009)
I wonder who has the most input for morasses like CARB & CAP N TRADE ?
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