Will Tesla build electric cars in Canada someday?
Elon Musk - Click to enlarge
The Tesla Roadster is, quintessentially, a California car. Not only is the convertible two-seater perfectly suited for the streets of Santa Monica but the car's home is in the San Francisco/Palo Alto area. Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk, though, has a lot of ties to Canada and a new profile of the man suggests that as the electric car company grows, it might build future Tesla models in Ontario.
The Star writes that Canada is being considered for Tesla's third model, the "cheap" one that should cost less than $30,000 when it arrives an unspecified number of years (five?) down the road. The value of the Canadian dollar at that time is one of the factors that will determine where that vehicle will be built, Musk said. He also said, "Canadian auto plants are some of the most efficient in North America, so it would be wise for us to take a close look" and that Canadians just might crush hard on his EVs:
Canadians have a strong environmental sensitivity, greater than in the United States. Also in Canada, most of the electricity is renewable from hydro and nuclear, much more so than the U.S., which still uses a lot of coal. I think in some ways it's really a better market.
Maybe not for convertibles 12 months a year, but for EVs? Sure.
[Source: The Star]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
josh 6:15PM (10/13/2009)
This article makes me happy. Like, super happy. I'm pretty much avoiding buying any ICE car at the moment cause of the obscene running costs and Telsa has the best laid plans for an EV worth waiting for at the moment. An Ontario plant would be another reason to own one.
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Nick 6:30PM (10/13/2009)
I thought Canada had the world's highest labor costs in the auto industry?
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Reimer 10:44AM (10/14/2009)
Only Ford employees
Richard 6:29PM (10/13/2009)
This is good news, but while Phoenix Motors has a ready made SUV, why isn't Tesla in talks with them? From what I've seen, Phoenix needs a battery, and voila, Tesla specializes in batteries! They could really jump the line with that conjunction.
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Jeremy 6:52PM (10/13/2009)
Tesla is happy to provide 'drivetrains' to other companies. For example, the Smart Car EV is a Tesla battery/software/etc as I understand it. Part of the DOE loan they received was for drivetrain development and production, and this is not for Tesla's own cars so much as creating drivetrains to provide to other manufacturers that want to create their own electric vehicles.
The thinking is that Tesla is so far ahead of the game in the battery management and electric drivetrain software and other technology that it would be less expensive, quicker, and easier for many other car companies to simply purchase/license that technology from Tesla than to develop it from the ground up themselves.
Nixon 12:20AM (10/16/2009)
Last I knew, Phoenix motorcars had two different sources of batteries already, and would be giving customers 2 options on what battery packs they wanted. At least one of the batteries would have a 10 minute quick-charge ability that the Tesla pack doesn't have.
I don't know how the bankruptcy has affected that, or if that is still their plans. But their business model is completely different than Tesla's. They are centered around a quick-charge model, with the idea that range isn't a big deal if you can quick charge in 10 minutes, so battery packs don't need to have as much range. Tesla uses a different business model, where range per charge cycle is maximized, with the idea that if you don't need to drive farther than the range of the battery before having time to recharge for a while, there isn't a need to recharge as fast.
Each company have valid business models to match the desires of different customers, but using the Tesla battery pack wouldn't fit into Phoenix's traditional business model.
Richard 7:43PM (10/13/2009)
Jeremy, Phoenix already has a drive train and a complete vehicle that has been proven to work. They just need batteries, that Tesla has.
Snoopy 6:45PM (10/13/2009)
Jeez,
Usually they post the links with thanks to the tipsters. What gives?
Anyway, I'm excited to see this, even if it's really just a comment from Musk.
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Sebastian 1:39PM (10/14/2009)
Hi. We actually had this post up and ready to go before we saw your tip come in. We seriously appreciate all the tips, though, and didn't mean to slight anyone.
Sebastian 7:10PM (10/13/2009)
Electric cars are perfectly suited for Quebec. We're virtually 100% powered by renewable energy. The only problem I foresee are the Winters, I don't know how well the batteries would fare at -30, -40 degrees Celsius.
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Jeremy 7:15PM (10/13/2009)
-40 celcius? How about -40 farenheight! ;-) (little nerd joke there... look it up!)
Anyhoo... the battery is always kept in a range around room temperature. If the car has to heat or cool the battery it will do that. This helps its lifespan and helps performance. So, if it's that cold where the car is, it's going to be heating the battery pack. Yes, even when you're not driving the car. Yes, it takes energy to do this. I don't know about those sorts of temperatures specifically, but typically the car can run that battery heater (or cooling system) for multiple weeks straight without being plugged in and without draining the battery. They did testing in Sweden and have battery packs that are torture tested in extreme hot and cold chambers in their engineering center, etc. The car will be just fine in the Great White North!
3n1gma 7:21PM (10/13/2009)
Speaking of coal, anyone see that pro-coal plant propaganda commercial on tv recently? Such nonsense... This lady was trying to make coal sound like this miracle clean energy source.
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why not the LS2LS7? 4:16AM (10/14/2009)
LIon batteries don't work well when cold, and heating them will steal energy that is needed to move the vehicle instead. Hydro or no, right now Canada is not a great candidate for electric vehicles. Maybe later as the technology matures.
Heck, just when I was young, you had to get your carbs adjusted if you moved to a place that was a lot hotter or colder or at a different altitude. So even recently gas cars (and especially Diesel) weren't great in cold, but they were improved. If EVs take off, someone will figure out how to make them work better across a broader temperature range.
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Jeremy 2:05PM (10/14/2009)
The Tesla works perfectly fine in cold and extremely cold environments. You're partially correct about keeping them warm requiring energy that would otherwise be used to move the vehicle. Partially because when the battery is charging or discharging it is creating heat as a side effect due to resistance in the system. Most of the time when you are driving the car, it is actually cooling the pack because of this, even if it's room temperature or cooler outside when the battery would not be cooling itself if the car were just parked. At -40 I have no clue how hard you would have to drive the car in order to keep the pack warm enough to actually make it so the car doesn't use extra energy maintaining that approximately room temperature range ;-).
People always bring up the air conditioning and cabin heat and assume that it would cut down on the range in a huge way. That's not the case though. Compared to moving a 2750 lb vehicle, running an electric heater or an air conditioning compressor takes very little energy. If you put the a/c on full blast the entire time you were driving the car, you can expect a 10-15% reduction in your range capacity. Simply keeping the battery warm would take less energy than that and would affect your range less.
But yeah, coming up with batteries that function just as well and last just as long across a much broader temperature range would only be a good thing.
"Last I knew, Phoenix motorcars had two different sources of batteries already,...At least one of the batteries would have a 10 minute quick-charge ability that the Tesla pack doesn't have.
... But their business model is completely different than Tesla's. They are centered around a quick-charge model, with the idea that range isn't a big deal if you can quick charge in 10 minutes, so battery packs don't need to have as much range."
The only reason the Tesla pack can't be charged in 10 minutes is because it is so much larger. Per KWH of battery capacity it should be capable of charging every bit as quickly as any other li-ion battery (w/ 480 volt capacity in their Model S, 300 mile range charge in 45 minutes!). If you wanted to drive a few miles, charge for 10 minutes, drive a few miles, charge for 10 minutes, etc, there's nothing stopping you from doing that in your Roadster. Take 95% of the battery cells out and you'd end up with about the same 'business model' and the same charge time. It's not a function of quick charging batteries, just a function of a small battery pack.
Serge 2:53PM (10/14/2009)
"LIon batteries don't work well when cold"
Why would you make an unsubstantiated comment like that? Lithium-ion batteries have the best cold temperature performance out of all commonly available batteries. Also, Canadians are very used to plugging their cars in when it's cold outside.
Jeremy: part of the reason you can't charge the Roadster's battery in 10 min is battery chemistry. Commodity lithium cobalt oxide batteries have limits on maximum charge current.
Ernie 4:09PM (10/14/2009)
"Maybe not for convertibles 12 months a year"
Oh, I don't know about that. Real Canadians(tm) drive with the top down in February. ;)
I couldn't find anything in Google in under 5 minutes to back that claim up, but I've certainly seen it happen.
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4r4nd0mninj4 7:45PM (10/15/2009)
Why yes Erine, at times I do drive with the top down in February :P And as for the Tesla, I would expect that the battery would do just fine up here. Canadians are used to plugging in our cars for the night and for the most part it will be charged in a garage anyway. I like the fact that they may build cars here...it's too bad that I can't wait that long and may have to get a US built Model S.
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