REPORT: Nissan already working on next-gen battery tech
2010 Nissan Leaf EV - Click above for high-res image gallery
Though the Nissan Leaf has yet to even sniff a dealer's lot anywhere in the world, the automaker's Chief, Carlos Ghosn, says his company is already hard at work on the electric car's next-gen battery technology. Not surprisingly, the goals are to make the pack smaller, lighter and less expensive than the current lithium ion unit that will allow a 100-mile range. So far, there's no word on what type of chemistry Nissan is exploring.
Of course, all this research and development into high-tech batteries doesn't come cheap, and Nissan is planning to recoup some of that cost by offering its proprietary lithium ion battery technology to other automakers. Soon, the Japanese company will be able to produce 200,000 batteries per year at its dedicated plant in Smyrna, TN.
Gallery: 2010 Nissan Leaf EV
[Source: Automotive News - Sub. Req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mark Kiernan 1:17PM (10/20/2009)
I think the battery lease idea is making more sense than the battery included idea. If you buy a car now you can have a battery of today with 100 mile range. But in 5 years you can benefit from a 400 mile range battery at no extra cost (or very little). You keep you car but get a new, better battery.
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Zeph 1:32PM (10/20/2009)
By leasing the battery you lose control of what you buy. Essentially you bought a shell of a car, missing a vital component. It's akin to buying a normal car and leasing the fuel tank.
Already on the mobile phone market we see corporate manipulation, as battery packs get smaller and lighter and life, due to the more advanced nature of smart and media phones, gets shorter. My old phone lasted a week, my new one 2 and a half days. The battery probably has more capacity per weight, but they still degrade the user experience through manipulation of offered technology.
If you let yourself fall into a battery lease model all you will end up doing is paying more for less in the midterm and contributing to battery technology stagnation.
I want open source battery technology, modular standardization. This would allow the market to decide what technology is better, without corporate boardroom interference. Countries should remove all sort of IP rights from battery technology, to stimulate the changeover. Hey, we're saving the world right?
If the above were done we would end up with battery packs costing a few hundred dollars, there is no technological or economical reason for them to stay at current pricing level, once economy of scale kicks in. The lease model is a corporate control model, and it's not suitable for most people.
paulwesterberg 1:37PM (10/20/2009)
I am sure they will come up with some reason why the battery cannot be easily upgraded to force you to buy the new model with double the capacity. Look at one of the most successful consumer products of our time, the ipod/iphone battery cannot be replaced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
Serge 2:48PM (10/20/2009)
Mark, the battery lease idea, from consumer perspective, is quite appealing, but as usual devil's in the details. For example, what happens when one owns the car, leases battery and defaults on lease payment? Does Nissan reposes the battery (assuming it's easily removable) or the whole car? Better check the fine print on lease agreement before signing.
I'm not really worried about planned obsolescence or OEM obstructionism. If there is demand for battery packs and OEMs are not willing to sell / charge too much, I can see a third party doing some reverse engineering work and offering an aftermarket version. This pathway of course depends on details of IP behind pack construction, but we are so ahead of events with this discussion that I don't see a reason to continue to speculate :)
Back on topic, good to hear that Nissan is working on next generation batteries. The race is on and players will need all the wildcards they can get to stay ahead.
Mike!!ekiM 3:41PM (10/20/2009)
As for the IPod, the model IS obsolete after a few years. Faster processors, graphics and cpu, allow for greater capabilities. And the phone, relative to your income, is inexpensive.
Now, the car, relative to your income is Not Inexpensive. And pretty much only Safety improvements make a car obsolete. Horsepower increases are just a way to make bigger engines that consume more gas, while giving you virtually no real world benefit.
Battery capacity increases will be another area that might make your car seem obsolete, but, they really ought to build replaceable batteries with new tech. as it becomes available.
Jon 7:03PM (10/20/2009)
"Countries should remove all sort of IP rights from battery technology, to stimulate the changeover."
This would actually have the opposite effect that you would expect. If companies can't protect their R&D investment, they probably won't make that investment in the first place. So this would actually reduce the number of battery technologies on the market, which would be bad for consumers as battery tech has a long way to go to be viable for the mainstream, and we need all the R&D investment we can get.
Yanquetino 1:25PM (10/20/2009)
200,000 batteries per year at its Smyrna plant, huh? That's pretty impressive. Makes me wonder where Nissan is going to get all that lithium from. Myself, I hope they've lined up a secure contract with Western Lithium (www.westernlithium.com) to tap into their Kings Valley mine in Nevada. Better that than shipping lithium from Bolivia or China all the way inland to Tennessee...!
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Mark Kiernan 1:30PM (10/20/2009)
I read that even if we had 5 million cars being produced per year in the US alone there would be enough lithium to support demand. Also in lithium ion batteries the quantity of lithium is very small so even with a 100 fold increase in demand it would have little affect on the cost of the raw material, as other more complex items make up the workings of the battery.
Mark Kiernan 1:43PM (10/20/2009)
Zeph and Paul,
You make very good points. I fully agree with the battery life issue but the main reason of selling a phone is its features and not battery life, the main reason for selling a car battery will be its range. I am probably resorting to wishful thinking when it think that they manufacturers will just let me upgrade my old battery with a new one without any problems ;)
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paulwesterberg 2:02PM (10/20/2009)
This would only happen if there was a government mandate. They will change form factors and voltages and battery management software will be tailored to the chemistry.
Like computer interfaces they need to have a standards group and a regulating authority. But this would make the most important part of an electric car into a commodity. It would make it harder for car manufacturers to differentiate themselves and to sell their products for the highest possible price. Car manufacturers would never agree to it.
Zeph 2:30PM (10/20/2009)
Even the computer market shows definite signs of planned obsolescence. Look at the motherboard standards, that change frequently for no good reason. 5 years down the line if you say burn out a processor, you're forced to change the whole motherboard, ram, graphics card, processor, fan combo, for no other reason other than the corporations pulled the rug from under your feet.
Sorry, but it's clear corporations are focused only on the bottom line, and I trust them about as far as I can throw them. We need the technology to be spread out through a lot of small and medium businesses, protected by law, so as to keep the big guys in check. Or they will simply rape us. It's happening now in other sectors, autos will be no different. People need to lobby some sanity back into the system, and if that means some corporate psycho dosen't get a bonus, who cares, besides the psycho?
Mike!!ekiM 3:45PM (10/20/2009)
As far as computers, I can now run an Oracle database on my laptop. My laptop is vastly more powerful then the mainframe from 1970. I'm carrying around mainframe power in a briefcase. On a Mac, I can run 2 OS's at the same time. Next year, I might be able to run 3. So, yes, there's planned obsolescence, but, there's also vastly more capability.
In auto's, there's only Safety Improvements that make the car obsolete.
Zeph 6:35AM (10/21/2009)
Mike: no doubt, I'm not stating that there is no progress, there is vast progress, and sometimes the technological change is warranted. Products DO get obsolete.
However, it's possible to make things modular and consumers should be spending less. When your laptop blows a processor and you're kept from a simple upgrade while being herded into an expensive equipment replacement you won't care how many OS' and Databases it could run, you will still feel ripped off.
The current economical and social trends give with one hand, take with the other. Sucks.
Kole 11:25AM (10/25/2009)
When i can get 300 plus mile range, charge a full charge in 5 minutes and buy the car for 13k. I'll buy one, until then, I'll stick with my gasoline or diesel car.
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Mike!!ekiM 6:35PM (10/20/2009)
Not all manufacturer's have found a way to obsolete their product.
Look at windows. The industry is actually FIGHTING improvements in window efficiency. They want you to buy the cheapest, least efficient windows, and sell you on style, vs. giving you a Real World reduction in energy use, and an actual energy payback.
These are the real crooks. Upgrade your windows and get No Benefit.
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