Studies Say: a wrap up from the green car front: "Internalize the Externalities," more
This is a particularly busy time for studies trying to understand the impact of green vehicles. Here's a quick round-up:
Paul Scott writes that, for anyone to fairly compare driving plug-in vehicles and gasoline-powered ones, we need a better understanding of the "exernalities" of fossil fuels. That is, what effect do these energy sources have that are not reflected in the price of gas at the pump. One example from a recent Congressional study: "burning of the two worst fuels, coal and oil, accounts for about $120 billion each year in health costs." Also, "criteria air pollutants emitted by power plants and vehicles" are responsible for about 20,000 deaths per year. Solar-powered EVs, which Scott is a strong proponent of, can compete if these costs are added to what we typically figure is the cost of gas.
A few other recent surveys and reports have found that:
- Palm biodiesel can emit greenhouse gas emissions up to 2,000 percent higher than fossil fuels.
- For plug-in vehicles to have a bigger impact we need to clean the grid. Well, duh.
- There might be 17 million natural gas vehicles in the world by 2015.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dave 8:18PM (10/23/2009)
"For plug-in vehicles to have a bigger impact we need to clean the grid. Well, duh."
Right. As soon as the fusion reactor project in France bears fruit, EVs will make sense.
In the meantime, a natural gas power plant is less than 60% efficient, the grid is about 95% efficient, and charging, discharging, friction, hysteresis losses, etc, probably give EVs a 90% efficiency assuming you don't use the heater (waste heat is readily available in an ICE vehicle).
So, running an EV is ~51% efficient when using electricity from a natural gas powerplant.
Just give us a natural gas powered Prius and we'll be better off in emissions and operating costs because the Prius is a whole lot less energy intensive to manufacture than a family sized EV with a reasonable range.
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Ray 1:16AM (10/24/2009)
The idea of switching to a nother fossil fuel to solve our problems is not appealing to me. It will just get shipped in as we will be able to buy it cheaper from a third world country. Then we will have this whole import export thing again. As well as the supply demand side with the gas company.
The terrorist will get a hold of one of those CNG tankers and ram it into the port of Portland and what a mess that would create. Lordy, lordy.
Scatter 2:18AM (10/24/2009)
Don't hold your breath on the fusion front. It's still a very long way away from commercialisation, that's if it's ever successful which is far from certain.
EVs fit perfectly with renewable generation though which is available right now.
Zeph 6:49AM (10/24/2009)
All these misleading studies trying to keep people in mind boxes...
We don't need to clean up the grid, we need to get rid of it. We need to change to renewable energy sources and a decentralized energy market. When every middle class house in the world has it's own solar panel roof, battery packs and a couple of wind turbines emissions become a non issue.
Until then we're enslaved to this psychopath run system that would rather ruin the world but keep centralization than let people make informed energy choices with a free market that would ruin their monopolies. This is the reality of the situation, everything else is just manipulation of information to keep people IN the grid.
Our current economic paradigm is based on usury, leasing, programmed obsolescence, fractional reserve banking, non renewable fuels and lies about everything that is good to solve to this problem. We are in a quagmire, because we trusted leadership to solve these problems... and it was them who created them in the first place.
Be the change you want to see. Focus on getting an electric car and the power generation hardware for it. Or an ethanol car and a still if you have the land and labor for it. Make something like this your transport goal. When enough people wake up and rejoin sanity the situation will correct itself, but all these studies and government deliberations and corporate marketing... they're useless.
Ray 1:35PM (10/24/2009)
@zeph,
I like the cut of your jib.
As the Chevy Chase's character said in Caddy Shack to the Danny Nunnan character, "be the ball, be the ball, be the ball Danny". Your saying, "be the energy, be the energy people".
Well kind of, sort of, maybe?
Nothing would make me happier than to stop mandatorily giving these corporations money just to live.
On the other hand the government does give large incentives and tax incentives right now for solar panel purchase and installation.
Nick 7:45PM (10/24/2009)
If EVs didn't produce any waste heat, why do the batteries have to be cooled?? Looks like that heat could be used for the occupant's comfort.
Nick 3:35AM (10/24/2009)
@Dave - 51% is still waaaay better than the 20% you get from a gasoline internal combustion engine (maybe 25% or so from a diesel engine). And the electricity can come from renewable sources.
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bjd002004 11:16AM (10/24/2009)
There are more externalities to account for when it comes to oil. How about the military costs to protect the oil tankers moving throughout the mid-east? The cost of the lives of US soldiers lost in the past 20 years in Iraq? Jeez, how about the cost of the over 80,000 Iraqi's who've lost their lives in the past 6 years? What about the environmental costs of oil tanker leaks and refining/storage explosions? What about the environmental costs of global warming, melting of polar ice caps? Energy security....isn't there a cost there? And economic costs....Oil imports make up the largest part of our trade deficit. The externality costs of oil are endless.
bjd
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Ron Wagner 4:34PM (10/25/2009)
Switching electrical generation to natural gas and biogas fuel is the best way to make the largest reductions of pollutants in the near future. Solar, wind, tide et all will take decades to supply 100% of our energy. The existing fleet of vehicles should be mandated to switch to natural gas or propane fuel. This could start with trucks and buses. Vehicles run almost identically on natural gas. We just need to encourage the conversions. GM already makes cars, for Brazil, that switch from propane or natural gas or ethanol. This is not rocket science.
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