Your flex-fuel Ford may be addicted to gasoline
This story is a bit humorous and may even end up saving you a few bucks if you own a flex-fuel vehicle. Local San Antonio news station WOAI is reporting that a number of flex-fuel vehicles that have been running on regular unleaded gas may flash the check engine light the first few times you fill up with E85. Dee Rithman, the owner of a 2000 Ford Taurus, was happy to learn that her car was designed to accept E85 even though there are currently no ethanol filling stations in her area. On a recent trip to Austin, she came by an E85 station and decided fill up with the gas alternative. "About three or four days later, I'm getting the check engine light on my car," she says. For $70, a mechanic told her "because you've been putting regular gas in it for six years, the engine's not going to take it because it's not used to it."
WOAI contacted the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition who said that, unfortunately, a lot of drivers experience this, but the problem is neither serious nor permanent. They said that the check engine light should turn off after the first few E85 fill-ups. They also suggest that you may be able to avoid the problem altogether by slowly introducing ethanol to your engine a few gallons at a time.
The article did not specify whether or not the problem was exclusive to Ford.
[Source: WOAI]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wayne Shick 3:36PM (3/06/2008)
I own a 2002 Ford Taurus I purchased in 2003 but didn't start using E85 in it until the summer of 2007 when I found out that it was Flex fuel. I used E85 whenever I could get it but still used regular unleaded most of the time. Everything was fine until I was on my way back from Nashville, Tennessee in December and after I filled up the engine light came on. It still seemed to run OK so I drove on home to Indiana. The light stayed on and it started to stall when I first started it in the mornings. I took it to my independent mechanic who checked it out and said that the problem was switching from regular gas to E85. After spending $89 to find that out they told me that only a Ford dealership could reprogram the computer. Of course the Ford dealer wouldn't do that without running another computer check ($99). $422 later and a reprogramming and update of the computer I drove it for two months and experienced stalling right after I started it when it had set for a while. Took it back to Ford dealer and reprogrammed it (NC). I've had it back two days and the light is on again and it stalls easily. According to one article I found on line Ford says that out of 228,000 flex fuel vehicles only 3 had these kind of problems so they don't consider it a major problem. I wonder if that's because a lot of people don't know that they can run E85. If they did start running E85 that number would probably skyrocket. I'm still waiting to hear back from the Ford dealership as to what they can do for me. They told me that it may take a few fill ups with regular gas before it corrects itself and then I should only run regular gas. If that's the case than what's the use of having a vehicle that Ford sold as a Flex Fuel vehicle. If it doesn't straighten out I'm stuck with a vehicle that runs crappy, and I couldn't in good conscience sell to anybody. I'm not too happy!
Reply
Fred @ Rogue Performance 8:12PM (3/14/2008)
Ouch - shame I stumbled on this so late.
Here's the problem, E85 is 85% Ethanol (a GREAT Solvent) and 15% gas. Any "sludge" in the system is instantly released and heads for the fuel filter and injectors. Usually, a fuel filter replacement does the trick (for any one that does not have known PCM issues like Wayne), and less than 25% have one or more bad fuel injectors. I sell a lot of individual injectors (but I recommend SETS) due to this issue. The returned cores are flushed 3 times, get the "guts" replaced and they are back in service.
The other problem is water. If there is water in the tank, the alcohol absorbs moisture and after some settling time, the water and alcohol go to the bottom of the tank - near the pick up tube. On a cold engine, E85 is hard enough to start, E100 (straight Ethanol) becomes next to impossible. As temperatures increase, the engine should start and run, just not well.
Here is my fix: 50/50 for 2-3 tanks, change the fuel filter, then go to straight E85, if desired. This slowly cleans the garbage and may keep you from getting stranded or facing a ridiculous repair bill.
I run my GAS ONLY Focus on E85 (custom tuning) as well as my GAS ONLY Ford Explorer.
Reply
Donny Seyfer 6:25PM (4/16/2008)
There is a lot of both good and inaccurate information here. I teach E85 Flex Fuel Strategies to auto technicians. You should all know that the strategies in the engine computers have changed a lot and in some cases many times. If you own a flex fuel vehicle you should have the software updated in the computer (PCM) prior to attempting E85 use. Once that is done you should run at least 3 gallons of gas in any GM product before switching to E85.If your GM had a flex fuel sensor originally the new software will take it out and go to a software based method of fuel calculation. That is why the GM needs a "baseline" with gasoline before you start running E85.
Fords have a different way of calculating the amount of alcohol in the tank. The best thing to do is to have the vehicle completely warmed up before you refill with E85. This will reduce the "learning time" for the PCM. When the non-flex fuel sensor Fords see a major refueling event (at least a 3 gallon change seems to be the way it works) All of the fuel related monitors are put on hold while the computer uses short term fuel trim information from the Oxygen sensors to calculate the amount of alcohol in the fuel. Once you start driving this information should be "mature" in about 7 miles of driving and then the regular computer functions go back on line. The Fords do not require starting off with a mix of E85 and gas but it can't really hurt anything either. Just be sure that you make a significant change in the amount of fuel in the tank if you are going to make a change to or from E85 and you should be fine. I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
I have kept this pretty simple so for you techies it might be a little incomplete but I hope more helpful than some of the mixed info that is on this forum so far.
Reply
first_dpf 6:35PM (6/28/2008)
What about Chryseler products? I noticed, for example, that the '02 and '03 minivans they made were flex-fuel, the '05 was not but the '07 and '08's are. flex-fuel. This seems odd to me. IS there a way to use e-85 in an '05?
Reply
Des Moines 5:32PM (8/30/2008)
I have a '99 Caravan with a 3.5 V-6 and have had no problems switching over to E-85. Has anyone had any problems with Dodges and E-85. I only started using E-85 after there was at least a 55 cent difference between E-85 and the lowest regular un-leaded. The rising price of corn is starting to shrink that gap.
Reply
Jimmy 10:15AM (10/12/2006)
Sadly, ignorant auto mechanics are a really barrier to change.
Rithman's mechanic said the vehicle was "rejecting the E85 fuel". What a bunch of nonsense. It is a machine, not a kidney transplant.
Michael Austin reported a similar incident when driving a Chevy Impala on E85 for Automobile Magazine. A dealer service advisor in Iowa told him to "lower the alcohol percentage in your tank". Since Michael was writing a story of a major magazine, he was able to get GM PR involved. The real problem was that the car needed a software update.
You can read the article here: http://www.automobilemag.com/features/great_drives/0608_2006_chevrolet_impala_e85_ethanol/index.html
Reply
Derrick Y. Noh 3:53PM (10/12/2006)
Interesting article, Jimmy. Thanks for linking it. It's a little frightening that the Chevy PR people called the 2006 Impala an "early version." Makes you think that there are A LOT of cars out there that will need this software update as E85 becomes more mainstream.
Reply
Jimmy 5:05PM (10/12/2006)
Derick, the "early version" comment is because 2006 was the first year for the 3.5L flex fuel V6, and the first year for a re-designed impala.
If is also worth noting that GM and Ford no longer use an alcohol sensor to measure alcohol content of the fuel. Instead they infer it based on other standard sensors. GM calls their system the Virtual Flex Fuel Sensor and it is completely done via software. I think the 3.5L V6 is one of the first engines to use this.
As a side note, there is at least one company, "E85 Solutions", doing after market ethanol conversions entirely in software rather than with a "black box".
Reply
Tim Russell 11:32AM (10/13/2006)
I'd be concerned using E85 after 6 years of gas just because the alcohol would losen all the crud that build up in the tank over those 6 years. Good way to end up on the side of the road with a clogged fuel filter.
Reply
Rick 10:04PM (10/17/2006)
I have a "newer" Ford E85 vehicle than the 2000 taurus in this post. We have had no problems running E85 in our 2003 4.0L Ford Explorer now that it is available locally. The engine actually runs better (likely due to the higher octane level). We have used E85 in city and highway driving and also while towing. We are very happy with the flexfuel capability and performance of the 4.0L flex system in the Explorer. Now if the local stations would give us more than a 10 cent per gallon break versus unleaded I could convince my wife to fill it up more often with E85.
Reply
MILES 10:20AM (5/10/2007)
Thank you so much for this story. I just filled up my 2000 Ford Ranger with E85 for the first time and panicked when the check engine light came on. This is much needed info.
Reply
Andrea 3:35PM (9/09/2007)
I bought a used 2000 Ford Taurus about 8 months ago, and I recently started to use E85 and I've had nothing but problems. The check engine light came on and freaked me out then it started to stall. I called the Ford dealership and he told me to put regular back in and see if that helps, but nope the light is still on and it is still stalling. Now I have to disconnect the battery and see if that works. I'm never going to use E85 again.
Reply