PG&E demonstrates first ever vehicle-to-grid charging
The concept of vehicle-to-grid (V2G) power sharing has been mentioned on our site quite a few times in the past. For one instance, check out our interview with Michael Brylawski, a member from the Rocky Mountain Institute. The basic principle here is that electric cars charged at night while electricity is cheap can actually give some of that power back during the day when electricity costs more, and the owners of the vehicle that is giving that power back can get a credit towards the purchase of electricity when the car charges back up. Make sense?
Don't believe that this can actually take place? Check out this article from Inside Green Tech. They interviewed Sven Thesen of PG&E on the subject. PG&E have been creating new advanced metering which will show you what is happening with the car, charging or giving back. Here is a quote, "Just plug your vehicle in at night, and we'll send a signal at 11, 12 or 1 a.m. to start your charging. When you get up in the morning, your car will be fully charged. You'll plug your car in at work. Maybe we'll need your electricity, and maybe we won't. If we do, you'll see a credit on your bill, and if not, you'll see nothing."
Click here to read more. And thanks go out to Dallas for the tip.
[Source: Inside Green Tech]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Felkster 7:52PM (4/10/2007)
The interview called it out--I think that the batteries are key here. I'd need to see a calculation of the cost of cycling your batteries versus the amount you'd "earn" back from the power company. I'm not convinced that lithium batteries would return on investment due to the limited number of cycles before they start to degrade.
Reply
Mike Z 7:53PM (4/10/2007)
This is more a PR stunt than anything. After all, the only thing being demonstrated is that a battery can be connected to a load. Big deal.
I think the V2G is really overrated. I love the idea of PHEV, but I just don't see the battery cycle performance ever getting to the point to economically justify V2G in the near to mid term.
V2G is more of a hack that proponents of wind power use as a way to overcome it's inherent unreliability.
All things considered, I would just prefer everyone focus on PHEV first, and go from there.
Reply
John Rowell 9:53PM (4/10/2007)
See the box with the red lid behind the batteries? That's a Sunny Boy inverter in there! Interesting. Actually quite simple concept and it looks like a fairly simple arrangement too.
Reply
kballs 10:32PM (4/10/2007)
I've said before that V2G isn't going to work, not because of technical issues as much as logistical issues: you drive to work and drive home, then your batteries in your PHEV are LOW = no energy to go V->G, but instead you must go G->V. V2G only works if you leave your car in your garage 24/7 and ride the bus to work.
That or your vehicle charges the battery up by burning a bunch of extra gasoline during the drive to work and back, then sends the energy to the grid when you get home = HIGHER COST, HIGHER POLLUTION.
Reply
Joseph 1:23PM (4/11/2007)
V2G: Sounds to complicated to actually ever happen.
Reply
Chris M 12:56AM (4/11/2007)
Misunderstanding of V2G, the batteries would NOT be drained completely, the driver would be able to set how much battery capacity was reserved for driving and how much could be loaned to the utility for V2G. It could range from 0 to over 50%.
V2G is unlikely to be used with batteries that have a limited "cycle life", however, many new batteries are demonstrating very high cycle counts and would work well for V2G.
The utilities could set up their own stationary battery banks, but might find it cheaper to lease a little extra capacity from electric vehicle batteries.
Reply
Scatter 7:39AM (4/11/2007)
"V2G is more of a hack that proponents of wind power use as a way to overcome it's inherent unreliability."
And that's bad how? V2G should enable a much larger potential for the more variable renewables
technologies because all that off peak power will be absorbed by the car fleet and returned at peak times. That'll mean the fossil fuel power stations can have their output reduced. That can only be a good thing.
Reply
Mike Z 8:41AM (4/11/2007)
I'm not arguing Wind Power per se, but instead that it is an implied assumption that Wind's proponent's make that, but do not factor into the cost equation the use of V2G Battery depreciation.
That being said, I am a big wind skeptic. I much prefer solar power, with solar powered parking garages for PHEVs seeming a far more elegant solution.
Reply
Scatter 9:14AM (4/11/2007)
I seem to remember seeing a post on GCC or EV World about the ancillary services that V2G could provide being a pretty reasonable earner for the flexible driver even taking into account battery depreciation. The more flexible the better of course.
The whole cycle life thing is the major barrier certainly and I just hope the rumours about EEStor and the like turn out to be true.
A solar roof on every south facing house is what's really needed but as we're going to have larger and larger fleets of PHEVs and EVs cruising around in the coming years I think it would be crazy not to take advantage of what V2G has to offer.
Reply
Tim 10:05AM (4/11/2007)
V2G PHEV-40 with a biodiesel APU is the way to go. If you don't understand this, you may sumply need more information on the subject. Here's a good place to start. http://www.udel.edu/V2G/
Reply
smellyolddog 9:51PM (4/15/2007)
PG&E Was the same company that created an energy shortage a few years back which made gov grey davis spend billions on extra electricty turns out PG@E was selling it out of state They Booted Grey Davis they should have booted PG&E
Reply