Detroit 2008: Subaru changes their mind, diesel coming to the US after all!
When Subaru announced their new diesel boxer four-cylinder engine, American Subie fans were disappointed to learn that the company wasn't planning to offer the engine here. Fortunately it looks like rising fuel prices and increasing fuel economy standards are causing Subaru management to have a change of heart. Just as General Motors is now looking at bringing their new 2.9L diesel V-6 stateside, Subaru is now looking to add the diesel to just-released second-gen Forester and Impreza models. At the Detroit Auto Show, Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company) president Ikuo Mori said the diesels should arrive here by mid-2010.
[Source: DieselForecast]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Snowdog 9:34PM (1/23/2008)
I imagine the lag is to clean up emission to Tier 2, bin 5. I hope they can do it without a urea tank.
Add me to the list of very interested potential buyers.
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frank78 9:56PM (1/23/2008)
I'll be in the market for a new car right around when this comes out. A Forester diesel sits as number one potential buy for me. I was thinking a Honda diesel previously, but this puts that at a distant second choice.
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Richard Shores 3:47PM (1/31/2008)
I agree with CT. I have had Subarus since the '70s, but my next car will be a diesel. I may not wait 2+ years for a Subaru, though.
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Shaun Garvey 4:29PM (5/13/2008)
Subaru's Achilles heel has long been fuel economy. A diesel would be great, though it is louder. A diesel hybrid version would be even better both for city fuel economy and the ability to run quietly at idle and low speeds, though I haven't yet heard of one. Hopefully, Subaru will not have to punish the whole country for California's ridiculously strict emissions standards.
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UX-admin 4:37PM (5/12/2009)
A modern turbo diesel is no louder than a gasoline engine, I should know, I own two.
Keyword here is -> modern
Joe (in San Diego) 8:39AM (7/24/2008)
Wow. A re-designed Forester with a diesel engine. I wonder if the people at Fuji Heavy industries can imagine what a hit that car would be south of the border. Everything in Latin America runs on diesel, and even I'm interested in the new Forester design (I have owned 6 Subaru wagon in the last 22 years). Seriously, if they ever marketed that car in Latin America, they would need to ramp up production somewhere else (like Indiana) just to meet demand. Keep up the good work.
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Rich79 1:33PM (7/24/2008)
I think Subaru are mad not to be bringing this diesel engine stateside before 2010. I'm a big fan of Subarus and would buy a new diesel tomorrow if it was available
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ecd4me 9:05AM (7/25/2008)
what about the dollar a gallon extra for diesel fuel? Does anyone think it will go down in the near future? It seems that if gasoline production goes down ,with decreasing demand, then diesel supply would also decrease.
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bgf 3:04PM (8/25/2008)
i just shite a lemon brick.
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Tyler 7:33PM (9/09/2008)
I don't really care that diesel is more expensive or that the car will cost more than with a gasoline engine. I have a subaru legacy that has had awesome reliability so far and if you throw in the long life of a diesel engine, I know I'll be happy and worry-free for a looooooong time; unless I crash it, then I'll be pissed. Good it has AWD.
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Rafael 1:45PM (9/28/2008)
AWD, Wagon, Diesel, Subaru.
I don't think news gets much better to someone like me with a 2004 outback, that loves it, but longs for better fuel efficiency.
As for those who say, "But, Diesel is more expensive!"
Well, that is true, oh wait a minute, no it's really not at all, at least in this particular situation. In my mind the test lies in what it costs in fuel to get there. Good ol' A to B, the tried and true method for any aficionado of the roadtrip.
For the sake of argument I made a few figures based on my florida average fuel costs, my current car's highway MPG, and the new legacy boxer diesel highway MPG, so kindly posted earlier by someone else. I'll hypothetically measure what it would cost if I left miami, buying fuel here before I leave, and drove 484 miles for a nice weekend in Savannah, Georgia.
In my beloved 2004 Outback Limited with the 2.5L H4 I get 27 MPG highway. The trip would constitute one long run on Highway I-95 so I'll just use highway miles for simplicity. To go 484 miles I need 17.92 Gallons of gas to get there. Florida Average today says regular is $3.71 X 17.92 Gallons needed to get there = $66.50 one way. Well I have a job so I need to get back home, so lets double that for the return trip. for a grand total fuel cost of:
$133.01
Now the new legacy (which will surely have and outback model) gets 49 miles to the gallon. So, once again, 484 miles to Savannah divided by 49 = 9.88 gallons of diesel to get there. Flordia average for diesel is $4.16 today. So, $4.16 X 9.88 Gallons = $41.09 oneway X 2 for the return for a total fuel cost of:
$82.18
Lets see if my science holds up under scrutiny but it looks to me like the trip in a Diesel is much cheaper, to the tune of:
$50.83
Or, another way to look at it is: Diesel would need to cost $6.73 before it was the same cost to run a gas car the same distance. I don't really see that kind of a difference happening any time soon, even with the apocalyptic prognosis of our economy.
Thats not even counting the fact that diesel engines are much much more durable than their gasoline cousins (lower operating costs). For sport and utility, well, in my mind there really is no contest, and I'd like to say, as an American that has lived in South America and Europe,
"ITS ABOUT F@$%ING TIME!"
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Snowdog 3:12PM (9/28/2008)
On the one hand you turn to number crunching on the other you introduce the myth of superior Diesel longevity. That is largely anecdotal evidence from ancient over-engineered iron blocks with low tolerance fuel feeds that would accept anything.
You can make that claim about a new untested design is a world where everything is engineered at much closer tolerances using ultra high pressure injectors and turbos. Not the same thing at all.
I am interested in the Subaru offering, but lets stick to reality and leave mythology out of it. Diesel represents a trade off. Hopefully a good one.
Vanchin 1:52PM (10/14/2008)
I am currently driving 2003 Legacy. I am thinking to replace it with Outback within the next 2-3 years. If Subaru happens to roll out Outback Diesel model here in US by that time I will be first to line up.
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Will 10:41PM (11/12/2008)
I've owned 2-1/2 subies.
My '90 Leggy had 273,XXX ultra reliable miles before impacting with a deer...Most reliable car I've ever owned. And this was one of the rare front wheel drive only versions, so MPG was well over 30.
The 97-98 GT was a designers nightmare. Sorry. All I can figure is they tried to get rotational mass down to spruce it up w/o a turbo and shortened the piston skirts too much - allowing piston slap to be heard. Sold that car within months after I was told that the sound was common to "that year" GT...Ahhh' right.
The 2005 SAABARU...A WRX in SAAB clothing...No one knew what it was, they sat on the lots for a year, price dropped to thousands less than a WRX - with a 4 year warranty... Used it for just over a year and sold it for almost what I paid. - What a car!
All I can say is they had better get that turbo diesel here before I buy a VW sportwagon TDI...
...A'hem....there on the lots now...Nov 2008...
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Ty 11:49AM (12/12/2008)
Will. About your TDI comment. Almost right. The VWsportwagen TDI's WERE on the lots. All 1300 VW decided to import were snapped up. Dosn't help that the only dealer within 200 miles FORGOT to tell that in order to get one I would have to put down a depost. Told me in Sept. that ordering wasn't an option. Stupid stealerships. I'll be watching for the boxer diesel VERY closely.
And the big three say that American consumers aren't ready for diesel, ya right. There are 45 states where they could sell all they could make, right now, today. The CARB arguement is just an excuse. With a couple of pen stokes we could Eurospec vehicles available by X-mas.
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/03/15/35-mpg-why-wait-until-2020/
subho 5:51PM (1/17/2009)
I am appalled at the fact that they are still talking mid 2010 for boxer diesels in America ? What are we f*****king retards or is this retribution for launching Apple products late in non-US markets. I don't understand what the hold up is for ? If emissions are an issue they need to make an exception for diesels period . Also, I need my tax credit for driving a more fuel efficient car.
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Chino 1:38PM (7/02/2009)
This comment addresses the problem of comparing fuel costs between diesel and gas-powered cars. Using either fuel economy or fuel price alone won't work, because the total cost of fuel depends on both. Here's a neat little math technique that will let you do a direct comparison between a diesel-powered car and its' gas-powered counterpart.
Take the fuel economy, in miles/gallon, and take the reciprocal of it. You will now have gallons/mile. Multiply this by the fuel price, in dollars/gallon. The gallons cancel out, and you end up with a neat little unit called dollars per mile.
Since this value takes into account both fuel economy and fuel price, you can directly compare the cost of driving a diesel vs. gas-powered car. Now, I'm going to show you how it's done.
I'm using the fuel economy values for the 2.0L turbodiesel Legacy sedan from Jeffrey's comment (comment # 2). The diesel gets 33.6 mpg (city), 49 mpg (hwy), and 42 mpg (combined). I'm going to compare this with the most efficient gas-powered Legacy in the U.S., the 2.5L Legacy sedan with a manual transmission. The gas-powered Legacy gets 20 mpg (city), 27 mpg (hwy), and 22 mpg (combined - got this from fueleconomy.gov). I'm only going to compare their combined fuel economy. I'm going to use some fuel prices from California, where gas was $3.60/gallon and diesel was $4.00/gallon, so there's a 40 cent premium on diesel fuel.
Gas-powered legacy: 22 mpg (combined).
Reciprocal of 22 miles/gallon = 1/22 gallons/mile = 0.045 gallons/mile.
Fuel economy x fuel price = 0.045 gallons/mile x $3.60/gallon = $0.16/mile.
So, it costs 16 cents to drive one mile with the gas-powered Legacy. Now, lets see about the diesel.
Diesel-powered Legacy: 42 mpg (combined).
Reciprocal of 42 miles/gallon = 1/42 gallons/mile = 0.024 gallons/mile.
Fuel economy x fuel price = 0.024 gallons/mile x $4.00/gallon = $0.095/mile
So, it costs 9.5 cents to drive one mile with the diesel-powered Legacy.
Comparing the two, the diesel still saves you 6.5 cents per mile, even with the 40 cent premium in diesel fuel price. 9.5/16 x 100% = 59%. In terms of money, the fuel costs for the diesel Legacy are only 59% of what you would pay driving the gas-powered Legacy. 100% - 59% = 41%. Another way to look at it is, even with the diesel price premium, it's still 41% cheaper to drive the diesel. Oh and FYI, if you shop around, you can find affordable diesel. There's a gas station near my home where diesel is 2 cents cheaper than gas ($2.61/gallon for diesel vs. $2.63 for regular unleaded). If you need to fill up, just try to stay away from the interstates. They like to gouge truck drivers, hence the higher price for diesel.
Hope you all find this info useful.
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Kenny 11:05PM (1/16/2008)
Anyone have MPG figures for the diesel Impreza models?
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jeffrey 2:52AM (1/17/2008)
There is no diesel in Impreza yet. It's coming first to Legacy and Outback in Europe (being released right now). Numbers from Subaru Finland for a 2.0L turbodiesel Legacy sedan:
City: 7 l/100 km = 33.6 MPG
Highway: 4.8 l/100 km = 49 MPG
Combined: 5.6 l/100 km = 42 MPG
http://www.subaru.fi/datasheet/hinnasto2008.pdf
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mark 8:01PM (1/22/2009)
when they offer a deisel outback I will order one asap