EcoMotors, Vinod Khosla and the Detroit Auto Show
Considering that the internal combustion engine has been around for so long, you could be excused if you thought that there were no more big gains to be found when it comes to the efficiency of the design. You would be wrong, though, and EcoMotors' has a unique design ICE that is giving the company room to make some big claims. Using a horizontal design, like the old Volkswagen Beetle or current Subarus, EcoMotors believes that a 2.5 liter engine using their technology could generate as much power as a current-tech 6.5 liter diesel.
According to reports, Khosla Ventures has invested an undisclosed amount of money in the company. This does not, however, constitute a recommendation by us, as we know little of investments. According to Khosla, the time is right and the market is ripe for new technology like the EcoMotors engine design. With all of the new legislation which will require vehicles to meet a more strict set of fuel mileage and emissions regulations, he may have a point. We look forward to hearing more details regarding the plans for this engine, although the team believes it may not be before 2011 that a production engine is made for consumer use.
[Source: CNET]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
detroit9000 11:20PM (1/16/2008)
Time for the annual pump-and-dump investor scheme. If you direct your attention backward, you'll see these things pop up every 6 or 8 years since, oh, about 1900. You can't get much better than 15%. It's no mistake that people are on the reciprocating piston and the rotary. They're just as good as the rest. Actually, they're better, because they've solved a lot of problems with friction and such. Mazda had something with the Miller cycle, but even they abandoned it.
Don't quickly abandoned the fundamental truism that these companies hire the best and the brightest, and they know the most. If the General isn't using it, it doesn't work, or it's not competitive in the marketplace. If it only take an inch of development, it's still something they thought of. Mazda spent untold millions on the wankel, because it was closest. This stuff.... pump and dump. Pump and dump stock scheme.
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PTkay 10:20AM (1/17/2009)
It seems you don't get the real advantage of this design.
It's not about the power effectiveness, this is pure physics and ICE will never do miracles.
This is all about power per weight, this is critical.
The pistons in this design push against each other
and against the crankshaft simultaneously in opposite directions.
They are never pushing the crankshaft against its housing,
hence the housing and the whole engine construction can be
significantly lighter.
This inherently balanced design also makes any balance shafts
obsolete, again saving weight.
This is no miracle, investor rip-off engine, it's a fact, heavily sponsored
by the military at the moment and certainly gradually sipping through
to civil applications, after declassified...
detroit9000 11:57AM (1/17/2009)
Those are exactly the kind of unsupported arguments typically associated with these sorts of schemes.
Have you ever calculated how much energy is lost? Because the crank rides on a fluid dynamic bearing. It spins pretty easy, and the downward force of the piston is offset to make it spin. The rods also ride on fluid dynamic bearings.
What percentage of DOD research projects ever become contracts? What is the definition of the word, "heavily"?
Thanks for the physics lesson though. I'm glad people like you are around, because my professors in engineering school clearly had their head in the sand.
In the meantime, I caution anyone against investing in something like this until someone with real research mettle (aka, a Ford or a Toyota) vouches for it.
And remember, just because a patent is granted doesn't mean it works.
Stephen 12:51AM (3/31/2009)
Just because the general isn't using it i can't work sounds pretty much like a head in the sand argument. I think a bit more research is in order before such comments are thrown about. 2 stroke diesels have been around commercially since the 30s and maybe before The general (I assume you to refer to be GM) produced them through the Detroit Diesel division. They have been used extensively in large trucks, yachts, large boats, and and diesel locomotives and why so popular for these applications? they are very efficient motors producing power on each stoke with capability of much higher power to weight ratios than typical 4 stoke diesels. These engines have been limited to these applications several reasons, but mainly limited by low power and smokey operation at low RPM, the need of super charger boost systems for operation, and they are bulky in size. This new OPOC design has very elegant solutions to these issues from the physics standpoint but the only question is if they can build a reliable commercial product which takes extensive design and prototype testing we means of course money. ie. Daimler Benz spent 5 years and 1.5 billion developing their latest Detroit Diesel DD15 4 cycle 6 cylinder commercial diesel engine.
matt 1:14AM (3/31/2009)
Welcome the test results!
Mattias 1:48AM (1/17/2008)
#1: This kind of two stroke diesel scheme is old and proven. The engines are relatively light and compact, but do not offer as nice flat torque diagrams as conventionel four stroke diesels. So they might be an option for hybrid vehicles with no conventional drivetrain that use a generator, some batteries and four hub wheels.
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eddy 5:50AM (1/17/2008)
The principle of the engine seems to be a quite a normal Boxer-Diesel like the ones Mercedes used about 70 years ago with some new features. The main advantages are the very simple construction and new methods of noise reduction and turbochargin or directinjektion that were never tested on this quite efficient small 2-stroke-diesels. Could really be very interesting if it was used in a hybrid drivetrain.
@detroit9000
Wankel-motors like the ones mazda uses were very popular in germany in the 1960s and 1970s. Mazda just licensed the technologie from NSU (a part of the Volkswagen Company). The point about wankel is the simple base construction (not many parts needed for one motor),the smaller size and the fact that you don't need omplex hard-to-regulate valve-system. But Wankel-engines weren't designed for lower cosumption but for better output/size-ratio and easier construction.
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jim 10:35AM (1/17/2008)
there are any number of promising alternative ICE's, that for a variety of reasons are not applicable for use in traditional automobiles. Some are unable to idle or operate of a range of RPMs, problems that don't exist in some stationary applications or when used in conjunction with electric drive systems similar to the Volt.
I will not be surprising that over the next 20 years some of these designs find use in motor vehicles, particularly if fuel cell development hits a cost or logistics barrier. But as an investment, only if you are in the business yourself.
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Steve 10:47AM (1/17/2008)
I wouldn't believe this, except for Mercedes coming out with its DiesOtto concept engine, which says to me there's more that can be done to the ICE. Frankly when you're operating at such low efficiencies there are any number of ways to improve efficiency. I'm no engineer, but it seems to me one could use water cooling tubes around the engine to generate steam from the waste heat, which can then be used for electric power generation, without creating any extra drag on the engine. I'm not about to go and invest in these guys, but someone else already has, so all we have to do is sit back and hope they're not full of it.
The fact is, there are so many new green car technologies coming out these days that I'm not particularly worried if one or more of them don't pan out. I'm talking about EEstor, the nanowire LiIon battery advance, this engine, Mercedes' DiesOtto, Ford's GTDI, the air car (which seems to lend itself to hybrid applications, since pressurized gas + heat = further pressurized gas), clean diesels, and whatever the future may hold.
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Rex 2:10AM (1/21/2008)
well, if you notice that the founder of EcoMotors John Coletti, used too be the head of Ford SVT, (you know him, as the head engineer of the 03/04 SVT Cobra, the 99-04 SVT Lightning and the 05/06 Ford GT supercar) if it can be done, he's the one too do it..
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detroit9000 1:32AM (3/31/2009)
Rex,
Colleti's a bit of a train wreck. I wouldn't make up your mind on that.
My ONLY point to make here is that if this kind of low hanging fruit was out there, the General or some equivalent would have stumbled upon it. This group's just running a pump-and-dump.
And, really, a couple hundren K for the patents is a small price to pay. If it's a serious threat, someone will snap them up.
Point: don't believe the hype. Don't invest in this until a big player throws their weight behind it.